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Discussion Starter #1
I saw thinking about getting the Apexi SAFC. What you uys think besides using a fuel pressure riser. are they the same.Thanks

Richie Soliven Representing Split Second Racing in Va beach,VA---- http://www.geocities.com/splitsecondracing/
SR20DET Power, HKS EVC EZ( boosting at 10 psi), HKS TURBO TIMER, JWT ECU , Greddy catback exhaust, 3 in ATR Race Cat(That is hollowed out), 3 in downpipe,300zxTT fuel pump HKS plugs,Magnecor wires, 5Zigen 5zm, relocated battary to the trunk, AGX'S struts and Ground Controls, Stillen kit , Carbon Fiber Hood on the way.
 

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No, they are different. The Super AFC is an Air Fuel Controller that tricks the ECU into adding more fuel -+50%. It also has many different functions like a dec air controller so you can run an open Blow Off Valve without having to reroute back to the MAF so you dont stall while stopping, and yes it works. U can control the fuel maps sepereatly for 8 different RPM ranges, 1000-2000-3000 ect up to 8 Plus you can change them around to meet your desired range. It also has a High low setting, which is activated at a certain Throttle Position. So you can switch from low to High at 25% throttle on up or lower ect. A Fuel Pressure Riser just raises the fuel pressure, u can use the two in conjuction with each other to have better control over your fuel issues.
The DSM guys use it along with myself, and I find it works great, I also use min in conjuction with a BB ECU.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by TurboSentra:
I saw thinking about getting the Apexi SAFC. What you uys think besides using a fuel pressure riser. are they the same.Thanks

Richie Soliven Representing Split Second Racing in Va beach,VA---- http://www.geocities.com/splitsecondracing/
SR20DET Power, HKS EVC EZ( boosting at 10 psi), HKS TURBO TIMER, JWT ECU , Greddy catback exhaust, 3 in ATR Race Cat(That is hollowed out), 3 in downpipe,300zxTT fuel pump HKS plugs,Magnecor wires, 5Zigen 5zm, relocated battary to the trunk, AGX'S struts and Ground Controls, Stillen kit , Carbon Fiber Hood on the way.

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Mike.
Turbo Classic, T3/T04e Tial 35mm ".65Bar" Blitz BOV, Custom piping griffen intercooler Core with HK$ EndTanks,custom manifold, 370cc injectors, paxton fpr, Eibach Sportlines, everything else was stolen,:( Pectel coming up bigger Injectors and custom fuel rail. DAMN VILLIANS.
 

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jwt ecu. I have seen a sr20 all over the hwy with tuning with a safc. I would use the safc to fine tune it, but not run on it alone.

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98 se-r w/ p/r cai,jwt s3 cams, stillen header, courtesy exhaust, ur pullies, JUN flywheel, ACT clutch, eibach springs, kyb struts, st sways, cusco camber plates, f/r strut braces,stillen lower control arm brace, lotsa bushings, and a bunch of other crap
 

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I run it stand alone and it works great for me.

Mike

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by brian:
jwt ecu. I have seen a sr20 all over the hwy with tuning with a safc. I would use the safc to fine tune it, but not run on it alone.

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks guys for your replay. Am going to the the apexi when i upgrade my injectors. Check out the website. Look under events my car is in there.


Richie Soliven Representing Split Second Racing in Va beach,VA---- http://www.geocities.com/splitsecondracing/
SR20DET Power, HKS EVC EZ( boosting at 10 psi), HKS TURBO TIMER, JWT ECU , Greddy catback exhaust, 3 in ATR Race Cat(That is hollowed out), 3 in downpipe,300zxTT fuel pump HKS plugs,Magnecor wires, 5Zigen 5zm, relocated battary to the trunk, AGX'S struts and Ground Controls, Stillen kit
 
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Discussion Starter #7
Originally posted by PSSSHHHGOESMYSR20:
No, they are different. The Super AFC is an Air Fuel Controller that tricks the ECU into adding more fuel -+50%.

***Not exactly. AFC stands for Air Flow Converter, not Air Fuel Computer. It modifies the signal from the MAF, Karman, or MAP sensor in the car and relays it to the ECU, thus "fooling" the ECU into thinking the engine is flowing more or less air, which results in more or less fuel. The correction range is +/- 50%.

It also has many different functions like a dec air controller so you can run an open Blow Off Valve without having to reroute back to the MAF so you dont stall while stopping, and yes it works.

***Yes, that part works. But you still should reroute the BOV back into the intake anyways for two reasons. 1. You are still going to run a little rich after shifting, which will dump raw fuel into your combustion chambers and wash the walls of their oil. This will drastically shorten the life of your piston rings. 2. The discharged air from the BOV back into the compressor wheel helps decrease lag when shifting into the next gear because this air restores some of the lost kinetic energy of the compressor wheel.

The DSM guys use it along with myself, and I find it works great, I also use min in conjuction with a BB ECU.

***Why? Didn't the factory get it right to begin with? Did you install a different MAF or larger injectors? If not, then you are probably doing more harm than good. Did you tune it with a wideband O2 sensor, like a Horiba or a Motec? If not, then I will bet you lunch it is not optimum.

I have built a few Eclipses recently and I have found that the Super AFC is great for DSM applications when you are running larger injectors. It allows you to recalibrate the fuel curve to compensate for the larger injectors and shorter pulswidth needed so as not to run rich. In this case, the Super AFC leans everything out to make the car run right.

If you have the option of a JWT ECU (like Nissan owners do), get one. Clark has already done all of the testing and remapping for you. Plug and play!

Stay away from the S-AFC on the SR20. It is not needed. Alos, reroute your BOV. It doesn't sound as cool, but neither does a non-running car in the garage!

Richie, go with JWT ECU of you do not alredy have one. And, you do not need to raise your fuel pressure unless you run the 4 bar fuel program with MSD 50 lb/hr injectors.

Good luck,




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Jay Whitely
Tampa, FL
1996 200SX SE-R
GTi-R powered with F-MAX kit

[This message has been edited by v8killer (edited 05-31-2001).]
 

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The DSM guys use it along with myself, and I find it works great, I also use min in conjuction with a BB ECU.

***Why? Didn't the factory get it right to begin with? Did you install a different MAF or larger injectors? If not, then you are probably doing more harm than good. Did you tune it with a wideband O2 sensor, like a Horiba or a Motec? If not, then I will bet you lunch it is not optimum.
[/B][/QUOTE]


Well since the Factory Ecu starts at 370cc and not 250's (I forget what size around that tho) when he goes with 660cc injectors the Afc won't be tapped. And Pulg and play? I have heard from some people that the JWT ECU isn't just plug and play, close but not true plug and play. The AFC is used by alot of other cars.....just not alot in the US, but everyone knows we get BS and not the whole deal in the usa.
 

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<***Not exactly. AFC stands for Air Flow Converter, not Air Fuel Computer>

Close enough.

<***Yes, that part works. But you still should reroute the BOV back into the intake anyways for two reasons. 1. You are still going to run a little rich after shifting, which will dump raw fuel into your combustion chambers and wash the walls of their oil.>

IF that were true wouldnt I backfire everytime I shifted? I dont.

<2. The discharged air from the BOV back into the compressor wheel helps decrease lag when shifting into the next gear because this air restores some of the lost kinetic energy of the compressor wheel.>

Thats funny I experience 0 lag from a t3t04e

***Why? Didn't the factory get it right to begin with? Did you install a different MAF or larger injectors?>

I use 370cc injectors plan on installing a 300zx maf. Believe me I planned ahead.

<I have built a few Eclipses recently and I have found that the Super AFC is great for DSM applications when you are running larger injectors. It allows you to recalibrate the fuel curve to compensate for the larger injectors and shorter pulswidth needed so as not to run rich. In this case, the Super AFC leans everything out to make the car run right.>

I use it for the same reason, Im about to purchase 660cc like Yellow Stated in the prior post.

<If you have the option of a JWT ECU (like Nissan owners do), get one. Clark has already done all of the testing and remapping for you. Plug and play!>

Like Yellow stated also I heard its pretty far from Plug and play. Also if they get it to you in a timely manner


<Stay away from the S-AFC on the SR20. It is not needed. Alos, reroute your BOV. It doesn't sound as cool, but neither does a non-running car in the garage!>

How can you be so sure, Mine does nothing you just stated. I think its a good tool for extended tuning capabilities and I didnt pay 600 for it either. Have you ever ran an AFC on a SE-R? I have and it works just fine.



Mike Collins
 
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Well since the Factory Ecu starts at 370cc and not 250's (I forget what size around that tho) when he goes with 660cc injectors the Afc won't be tapped.

***A stock non-turbo SR20DE comes with 259cc injectors and the stock Bluebird turbo comes with 370cc injectors. If you wish to run larger injectors, the JWT is the best solution for this. You can use the S-AFC to run larger injectors; however, you have the task of tuning and adjusting the S-AFC correctly so that you have correct A/F ratios at the desired RPM's and throttle positions.

How will you adjust the S-AFC correctly?

I know that when I adjust mine on Eclipses, I consult with HRC and tell them what combo of turbo and injectors I am running and they fax me the correct settings that they figured out. I would not dare monkey around with the S-AFC without the proper tuning equipment or correct settings provided to me.

Also, I have never heard of drop in 660cc injectors for the SR20 fuel rail. What brand are these? The most reliable way to go is to get a JWT or custom fuel rail with MSD 50 lb/hr or 72 lb/hr injectors with the correct ballast resistors.

And Pulg and play? I have heard from some people that the JWT ECU isn't just plug and play, close but not true plug and play.

***Who told you that? On SR20 equipped vehicles from 1991 to 1997, you just remove and replace the ECU. It takes about 10 minutes...very easy. On 1998+ vehicles, you have to use a 1997 ECU and do some rewiring of the emissions sensors and stuff. Still, not that hard. Maybe, the person that told you the JWT ECU was not plug and play had a 1998+ SR20.

The AFC is used by alot of other cars.....just not alot in the US, but everyone knows we get BS and not the whole deal in the usa.

***I agree with that. We never get the good cars over here.

I am not trying to be confrontational, but just trying to understand the use of the S-AFC on the SR20. It can and will work, but it needs to be adjusting correctly and I am curious about how you will be able to achieve that.

Sincerely,




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Jay Whitely
Tampa, FL
1996 200SX SE-R
GTi-R powered with F-MAX kit
 
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<***Yes, that part works. But you still should reroute the BOV back into the intake anyways for two reasons. 1. You are still going to run a little rich after shifting, which will dump raw fuel into your combustion chambers and wash the walls of their oil.>

IF that were true wouldnt I backfire everytime I shifted?

***No. But, you are still going to dump SOME excess fuel back onto the cylinder walls, eventually causing "gas washing" of your cylinder walls and piston ring failure. It is not an overnight thing. It takes time. That is like saying I smoke everyday and I do not have cancer. You may not now, but you probably will in the future. It just takes time. My friend has gone two sets of piston rings on his Silvia motor b/c he does reroute the BOV. I keep telling him why this happens and still proceeds to leave it that way and get the engine rebuilt again and again.

<2. The discharged air from the BOV back into the compressor wheel helps decrease lag when shifting into the next gear because this air restores some of the lost kinetic energy of the compressor wheel.>

Thats funny I experience 0 lag from a t3t04e

***Right. ALL turbos have some measurable amount of lag. Some have more or less than others, though. You have lag. And, you would have less of it if you reroute the BOV and make use of that wasted energy.

I use 370cc injectors plan on installing a 300zx maf. Believe me I planned ahead.

***How have you planned ahead? If you did not plan on using a JWT ECU for your car, then your plan has a major flaw in it. How are you going to adjust the S-AFC correctly?

Why not use the more readily available and higher flowing Ford Cobra MAF? You can buy these cheap at any Ford dealership along with the wiring harness for it.

I use it for the same reason, Im about to purchase 660cc like Yellow Stated in the prior post.

***What brand are these 660cc injectors? Are they side feed or top feed? What impedance?


Like Yellow stated also I heard its pretty far from Plug and play.

**No. It is plug and play for 1991-1997 cars.

Also if they get it to you in a timely manner


***What do you consider timely...or...not timely? Have you ever ordered an ECU from them? I have always receive my ECUs from them within 5-6 days. I order it one day, they send it out the next day, and it arrives via UPS ground 5 days later. What is so out of the ordinary about that?

How can you be so sure, Mine does nothing you just stated.

***I guess that I cannot be sure. But, you MAY find out one day that I was right and it will be too late. I guess your car is just different then. It cannot fall victim to anything that you throw at it, huh? Turn up the boost to 15 psi and let's see what happens after several runs.

I think its a good tool for extended tuning capabilities and I didnt pay 600 for it either.

***You wouldn't need any extended tuning capabilities with the JWT ECU :) The S-AFC does not cost $600, so I am not surprised that you paid less. They are closer to $300-$350 or so new. I would rather pay the extra money for a LOT of insurance against future problems. The money you save will probably be used for an engine rebuild later, though.

Have you ever ran an AFC on a SE-R?

***No. I never would. You could not pay me enough to put one on an SE-R without the correct tuning equipment.

I have and it works just fine.


**I smoke and I am not dead yet.

***I have a lot of respect for the DSM crowd. I have learned a lot from you guys and I have been able to build a few fast Eclipses with the Super AFC and 625cc injectors. However, you cannot always take DSM methods and apply them to SE-R's. The DSM solution is the S-AFC and it works well. The Nissan answer is JWT. Both solutions work well for what they were designed for. Why mess with a good thing?

Later,

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Jay Whitely
Tampa, FL
1996 200SX SE-R
GTi-R powered with F-MAX kit

[This message has been edited by v8killer (edited 06-01-2001).]
 
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dame ok. Am going with 550 msd injectors and a corba MAF. Thanks jay again for helping me out. By reading everyone post I have learned alot more about my motor. The reason I ask is because my friend used apexi on this 95 Supra TT and with him tuning it he gain like 15 to 20 hp. Well am not going to buy one. thanks for everyone who replayed.
 
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Richie,

If you run the MSD 50lb/hr injectors, you will need the JWT fuel rail for them. Also, you will need the JWT ECU or if you have one, have it reprogrammed for the larger injectors. I do not think you need ballast resistors with the 50's, but I know you do with the 72's. Ask JWT when you call them.

What fuel pump are you using right now?

Also, did you ever get the GReddy Type S adjusted properly? I found that with the Type S, you will need to remove the upper purple part and remove the outer spring and use just the inner one. Then, with a hand held vacuum pump and gauge, set the adjusting screw to allow the plunger to start moving at about 10 inHg of vacuum. I did this on my latest Eclipse project and I found that it starts to open at about 8 inHg, which is fine...this allows the valve to fully open at about 13-14 inHg. Hook up the vacuum source after the throttle body.

For the internal wastegate: intake manifold to IN or Profec B, then OUT of Profec B to wastegate. Make sure your dipswitches are set correctly on the back of th GReddy control unit inside the car. IIRC, they should be up, down, up, down for an internal w/g without overboost.

Good luck Richie,


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Jay Whitely
Tampa, FL
1996 200SX SE-R
GTi-R powered with F-MAX kit
 

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Jesus talk about pro JWT, do they pay you to indorse there products?

Why dont I use JWT? Simple Cause everyone else does, I plan on Running Tec2 or Pectel in the near future, why? Because I like to be different and I dont care too much for JWT and its over priced equipment Id rather have unlimited tuning capabilites at the tip of my fingers then rely on that ECU. Perhaps you may have never known this but no 2 cars are alike. With that being true why would you use the same Maps very every car?

The 660cc injectors are from DENSO they are top feed injectors and I will be using them with a custom Fuel rail NOT JWTs 250 dollar unit


As far as tuning the AFC, well we used Many different Variables, from Air Fuel Ratios to EGT readings. Dyno works as well, as a matter of fact Apex will tune it for you if you so desire.

IM just curious how you came up with this theory of the AFC, You said yourself you never used it but you put it down enough as though you are the guru of Apex.

Im sorry I dont Use JWT but its not holding me back, and Ive been using it for quite some time now. Go figure.

But hey lets not try and make this into a pissing match. Ill continue to indorse Apex integration, and you can stick to your JWT
 

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When I do a SR20DET in a S13 It will be with a AFC
I have seen those JWT reprogramed ecu's in action and the car sucked. It couldn't get lower than 13.7's while the other car, same mods and turbo ran 12.9's. But this is just like the pic below.

 
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Jesus talk about pro JWT, do they pay you to indorse there products?

***I only wish! I will be the first one to say that JWT's stuff is VERY expensive. But, it works very well and you do get what you pay for.

Why dont I use JWT? Simple Cause everyone else does,

***Well, there is a reason for that. It works very well and is proven.


I plan on Running Tec2 or Pectel in the near future, why?

***There was already a week long debate about this same subject about 2 months ago on the main SE-R list and nobody one that argument then either. The TEC2, Motec, etc...will all work just fine...no doubtr about it. You will probably even be able to get a little more power from your car with those units also. However, with that increased power over the JWT program, you may be sacrificing overall RELIABILTY and/or driveability in ALL weather conditions.


Because I like to be different

***That is no reason to monkey around with your expensive turbo setup. Don't try to reinvent the wheel here.


and I dont care too much for JWT and its over priced equipment

***I agree on the prices. Wherever possible, I try to get my stuff elsewhere, except for the ECU and maybe the cams.


Id rather have unlimited tuning capabilites at the tip of my fingers then rely on that ECU.

****The key here is that you should be very good or almost even an expert at tuning with a wideband O2 sensor. Do you have a Horiba?

Perhaps you may have never known this but no 2 cars are alike. With that being true why would you use the same Maps very every car?

***That doesn't make sense. Two turbo setups with same turbos, injectors, and MAFs can be alike. If you want further tuning, you could always drive out to San Diego and have it tuned for your setup in person :)

The 660cc injectors are from DENSO they are top feed injectors and I will be using them with a custom Fuel rail NOT JWTs 250 dollar unit


***I agree again on the fuel rail. I can duplicate the JWT fuel rail at a local machine shop for about $30-40 in parts.

As far as tuning the AFC, well we used Many different Variables, from Air Fuel Ratios

****Do you have a wideband O2 sensor or a $20 one mounted on your A-pillar made by Cyberdyne?


to EGT readings.

****These can be very deceptive as well.

Dyno works as well, as a matter of fact Apex will tune it for you if you so desire.

***Cool. I did not know that.


IM just curious how you came up with this theory of the AFC, You said yourself you never used it but you put it down enough as though you are the guru of Apex.

***No, no. I HAVE used the S-AFC on Eclipses, but not on SE-R's. I think the S-AFC works great on Eclipses with larger injectors. I had HRC fax me the settings based on my injector size, turbo setup, and desired boost level. They already did most of the tuning on one of their cars and I used their settings to get the car running. Then, I will take it to a good shop in Miami and have it fine tuned with a wideband O2 sensor, like the Horiba.

Im sorry I dont Use JWT but its not holding me back, and Ive been using it for quite some time now. Go figure.

***To each his own. I am sure your car does run fine. JWT is not the ONLY thing there is, but it IS proven and it is very reliable.

But hey lets not try and make this into a pissing match. Ill continue to indorse Apex integration, and you can stick to your JWT

***Actually, I like both Apex-i and JWT for different products for different cars.

I will bet you do not like HRC either, huh? I know they are really expensive, too. But, their quality is second to none.




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Jay Whitely
Tampa, FL
1996 200SX SE-R
GTi-R powered with F-MAX kit
 
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]When I do a SR20DET in a S13 It will be with a AFC
I have seen those JWT reprogramed ecu's in action and the car sucked. It couldn't get lower than 13.7's while the other car, same mods and turbo ran 12.9's. But this is just like the pic below.

***I am speechless. I guess you proved me wrong!

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Jay Whitely
Tampa, FL
1996 200SX SE-R
GTi-R powered with F-MAX kit
 

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Damn! You guys know your stuff!
I didn't realize we had such awesome turbo gurus that were regulars on these forums!


I'm going to ask some more detailed questions now
hehe

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Ben98SentraSE
98 Sentra SE TURBO and crashed 93 NX2000
 

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<***I only wish! I will be the first one to say that JWT's stuff is VERY expensive.>

Im glad Im not the only one



>Because I like to be different

***That is no reason to monkey around with your expensive turbo setup. Don't try to reinvent the wheel here.<

I dont monkey with a motor I do what I know and I know what I do. But I just do it differently is all


>Id rather have unlimited tuning capabilites at the tip of my fingers then rely on that ECU.

****The key here is that you should be very good or almost even an expert at tuning with a wideband O2 sensor.<

What I dont know or dont have I know people who do, Im not a fool when it comes to motor work Im the first person to ask someone whos been around a while on how to do something, and I learn from that.

>Perhaps you may have never known this but no 2 cars are alike. With that being true why would you use the same Maps very every car?

***That doesn't make sense. Two turbo setups with same turbos, injectors, and MAFs can be alike. If you want further tuning, you could always drive out to San Diego and have it tuned for your setup in person :)<

No two set ups are Equal there is always something different, the slitest in difference can make a huge increase or decrease in HP and Reliability. I have a t3t04e so do lots of people but the trim on my turbo is completely different then the trim on anothers set up, see my point?

>As far as tuning the AFC, well we used Many different Variables, from Air Fuel Ratios

****Do you have a wideband O2 sensor or a $20 one mounted on your A-pillar made by Cyberdyne?<

No I do not have a wide band O2 but the guy at the Dyno does


>to EGT readings.

****These can be very deceptive as well.<

Sure if you use some cheap unit like Autometer, Ill stick with proven Greddy.

>I will bet you do not like HRC either, huh? I know they are really expensive, too. But, their quality is second to none.<

I have no opinion about them I have never delt with them But I have heard nothing but good things about HRC.

Mike Collins
 

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It seems that the 2nd piston is always the one that goes on the DE,DET. That is where we mounted the probe. "But The Wide Band O2 can..." IT DOSEN'T MATTER!
If you worked with DSM's you should know about the EGT's? maybe those ones without them are not that fast? I could be wrong......wait no not really.
 
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