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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
All,

The link below will take you to a slide show that contains six photos. The first four are of the front tires that took a beating; the last two are of the tires that I ran in the rear. Here are the facts:

1. There are 5 race days on all four tires. (2 Infineon, 1 SOW, 2 WSIR)
2. These tires are not driven on the street.
3. The tires didn't show much wear until after Willow. That may be attributed to two things. I wasn't running camber plates prior to that. We ran 250 track miles at Willow.
4. The tires are Falken Azenis RT-615s, 205/50R15s on 15x7 wheels.
5. Alignment in front is 2.4 degrees neg. camber and 3/32 toe out.
6. The tires get rotated after each race event so the two worn tires were actually run in the rear last time.
7. Notice the insides of the fronts are worn pretty much to the wear bar. Wear on the rear tires is totally different. There is still a ton of tread left.

So after looking at the photos and taking into account the above facts, does this wear seem expected??

http://gallery.aboutgardner.com/gallery/slideshow.php?set_albumName=NX-TireWear-09-05
 

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I might not have an answer for you, but am running almost identical alignment setting and seeing similiar wear on my azenis and hoosier tires as you.

Currently
-2.2 to -2.5 camber up front, 3/32 toe-out, and roughly 2.5 of caster.
205/50/15 RT-215 Azenis on 15x7
205/50/15 R3S03 Hoosiers on 15x7

I only use one track which consists of 10 turns with 2 of them being fairly high speed (enter at around 55 and exit close to 90) and long. These 2 turns are where the most of my inner tire wear comes from, IMHO.

I've got right around 1400 track miles, 1000 on the hoosiers and 400 on my azenis. The azenis I only used in the wet or on cold mornings, the hoosiers I reserved for the dry days. As of right now my azenis look similiar to yours and my hoosiers are all showing cord on the inside edge. I have resorted to flipping the hoosiers and the corded section of my tires (now on the outer edge) is not growing after the last track day of about 200 track miles.

I also take tire temps with a longacre pyrometer. My temps across the tire are correct, from the outer edge to the center I am seeing +10 degrees, and from the middle to the inside another +10 degrees.

What am I doing about it. For next year I am planning on reducing camber to -2 and maxing my caster (hopefully around 4 degrees) with the aid of caster bushing and some small notches in my strut tower to maximize the GC C/C plates. The outer 2/3 of my hoosiers are not seeing much for tire wear, where the inside is seeing most of it. I am hoping by reducing the camber and maxing caster that I can get more even tire wear. I am also going to switch to a 225/45/15 RA1 eventually, maybe a little more tire will help keep temps down and hopefully improve the longevity of the tires

Sorry, that I wasn't able to answer your question, adg016, but I hope that this helps somehow.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Yes, it was helpful. Thanks. Um, Westend got 3 degrees of positive caster to go along with my 2.4 degrees of neg. camber. I didn't see the wear until I started running the camber plates. Problem is that was also combined with running on a very high speed track as well as a couple other contributing factors, so I haven't been able to isolate and control for a single variable. That's why I was soliciting other opinions. I thought about notching the back of the strut towers too, but the thought was that since we got 3 full degrees of positive caster, that maybe it wasn't necessary.



McCoy said:
I might not have an answer for you, but am running almost identical alignment setting and seeing similiar wear on my azenis and hoosier tires as you.

Currently
-2.2 to -2.5 camber up front, 3/32 toe-out, and roughly 2.5 of caster.
205/50/15 RT-215 Azenis on 15x7
205/50/15 R3S03 Hoosiers on 15x7

I only use one track which consists of 10 turns with 2 of them being fairly high speed (enter at around 55 and exit close to 90) and long. These 2 turns are where the most of my inner tire wear comes from, IMHO.

I've got right around 1400 track miles, 1000 on the hoosiers and 400 on my azenis. The azenis I only used in the wet or on cold mornings, the hoosiers I reserved for the dry days. As of right now my azenis look similiar to yours and my hoosiers are all showing cord on the inside edge. I have resorted to flipping the hoosiers and the corded section of my tires (now on the outer edge) is not growing after the last track day of about 200 track miles.

I also take tire temps with a longacre pyrometer. My temps across the tire are correct, from the outer edge to the center I am seeing +10 degrees, and from the middle to the inside another +10 degrees.

What am I doing about it. For next year I am planning on reducing camber to -2 and maxing my caster (hopefully around 4 degrees) with the aid of caster bushing and some small notches in my strut tower to maximize the GC C/C plates. The outer 2/3 of my hoosiers are not seeing much for tire wear, where the inside is seeing most of it. I am hoping by reducing the camber and maxing caster that I can get more even tire wear. I am also going to switch to a 225/45/15 RA1 eventually, maybe a little more tire will help keep temps down and hopefully improve the longevity of the tires

Sorry, that I wasn't able to answer your question, adg016, but I hope that this helps somehow.
 

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It doesn't look like your wear is unexpected. Remember that these aren't really "race tires" but street tires made for autox. They are molded at 8/32 I think, but most track tires are shaved 4/32.

Do you have a real LSD or stock? We noticed better wear when we had both front tires working. Also, the more you drive the easier you'll be on tires.

Also, those tires have plenty of life left in them. Run them till they cord!

Now this tire is done:

 

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The slight bit of toe-out is certainly a factor, but not sure how much of a factor. Is your handling affected much with using 0 toe?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Jim,

I actually asked one of the Falken tech guys if it would be beneficial to shave them to prevent chunking and actually improve tire wear. He didn't seem to think so, so I ran them at full depth. When I throw the rears on the front and run at Buttonwillow in a week, I'll be able to collect more data. My LSD is stock. I'm out of mod points for my NASA TT class.

Jim #98NX said:
It doesn't look like your wear is unexpected. Remember that these aren't really "race tires" but street tires made for autox. They are molded at 8/32 I think, but most track tires are shaved 4/32.

Do you have a real LSD or stock? We noticed better wear when we had both front tires working. Also, the more you drive the easier you'll be on tires.

Also, those tires have plenty of life left in them. Run them till they cord!

Now this tire is done:

 

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spdracerUT said:
The slight bit of toe-out is certainly a factor, but not sure how much of a factor. Is your handling affected much with using 0 toe?
With the camber he's running the toe-out is needed to keep the car drivable on the road. I tried 0 toe for about 1 month, there was way to much 'tracking' on the crowns of the road... I had to double-fist the steering wheel while on the freeway driving to the track :eek:. With a little toe-out, this problem went away completly for me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Mike's got all of that info, as we took many readings. He was pretty happy with the temps, but I'll look into it some more.

narcotix said:
Don,

Have you got a pyrometer? Not the IR kind...the needle probe kind? What are you seeing for temps?
 

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Bitter Old Man
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I made the mistake of running full-depth but heat-cycled Kumho Victoracers at SOW during the 2004 SE-R convention and wore the hell out of them. Full-depth and dry conditions = bad, m'kay? Same tires later at Texas World Speedway held up great since they were then down to more appropriate depth for dry track conditions.

It also seems to me that SOW is just more textured than other tracks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Right, this wasn't on SOW, it was on the big track. And these aren't dedicated race tires intended to be shaved.

Slartibartfast said:
I made the mistake of running full-depth but heat-cycled Kumho Victoracers at SOW during the 2004 SE-R convention and wore the hell out of them. Full-depth and dry conditions = bad, m'kay? Same tires later at Texas World Speedway held up great since they were then down to more appropriate depth for dry track conditions.

It also seems to me that SOW is just more textured than other tracks.
 

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Drinking The H Juice Now
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i will say that with the 615s in an autox setting it has been found that there is less tread squirm when shaved leading to better uniform wear and the 615 is actually much stickier at the lower tread depths. mine are at about 4/32-3/32s right now and are a good .3-.5s a run faster. ran them at TGPR (site of 03 convention and the wear was minimal and more uniform.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Wouldn't doubt that you're faster. Still, according to Falken, the tires will last longer running them initially at full depth. We'll see.

BigB said:
i will say that with the 615s in an autox setting it has been found that there is less tread squirm when shaved leading to better uniform wear and the 615 is actually much stickier at the lower tread depths. mine are at about 4/32-3/32s right now and are a good .3-.5s a run faster. ran them at TGPR (site of 03 convention and the wear was minimal and more uniform.
 

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adg016 said:
Wouldn't doubt that you're faster. Still, according to Falken, the tires will last longer running them initially at full depth. We'll see.
Your choices are:

1. Align car to go fast, accept tire wear.

2. Align car to suck and maybe get better tire wear under slow driving condtions.

You are running a proven setup that we tested and found the data good. You worry too much. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Ha, don't let my post fool you. I wouldn't change a thing if it would make the car handle worse! ;)

choaderboy2 said:
Your choices are:

1. Align car to go fast, accept tire wear.

2. Align car to suck and maybe get better tire wear under slow driving condtions.

You are running a proven setup that we tested and found the data good. You worry too much. :)
 
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