brake fluid??

922 Views 10 Replies 4 Participants Last post by Michael-Dallas, Feb 23, 2004

dan7225

Discussion Starter · Feb 2, 2004

does anyone use that valvoline synthetic brake fluid from advance auto parts? when i done my last brake job i ran all new valvoline brake fluid through the lines. i have been having problems with poor braking ever since i've done that, the nx2000 brake upgrade, and new stainless lines.

it snowed the other day and i slammed on the brakes to check how well the rear disc brakes were working. it was exactly as i expected. i had to push the brake pedal all the way to the floor as hard as i could to get the rear brakes to lock up (remind you this is on a long snow patch at my apt. complex). i would think the rear brakes would lock up a lot faster than that, especially on a snow packed driveway.

well, back to the real question. can that valvoline synthetic brake fluid (which on the bottle says it maximizes ABS performance) be used in a non-ABS car? maybe this is why i have mushy brake feel (or maybe not)?

what do you guys think?

thanks in advance for any responses,
dan

98 sentra se
non-ABS

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Spaceman Spiff

· #2 · Feb 2, 2004

I thought I was the only one with this problem.

With NX brakes, I can easily bleed them and they'll be rock solid. After 2 months of driving, they'll get mushier and mushier and I'll go bleed them again.

I had a brake shop do the bleeding once. Same results.

Now that I have Wilwood setup front and Maximas rear, the Valvoline Brake fluid works great. It's still rock solid after 1.5 years of usage with couple AutoX and avoided freeway debris.

I can't explain why you're getting the problem. I was just surprised upgrading solve my problem. I had the exact same problem you're having.

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dan7225

Discussion Starter · #3 · Feb 2, 2004

Spaceman Spiff said:
I thought I was the only one with this problem.

With NX brakes, I can easily bleed them and they'll be rock solid. After 2 months of driving, they'll get mushier and mushier and I'll go bleed them again.

I had a brake shop do the bleeding once. Same results.

Now that I have Wilwood setup front and Maximas rear, the Valvoline Brake fluid works great. It's still rock solid after 1.5 years of usage with couple AutoX and avoided freeway debris.

I can't explain why you're getting the problem. I was just surprised upgrading solve my problem. I had the exact same problem you're having.

i have never been able to get a solid feeling pedal since i first done the nx2000 brake upgrade. i've probably bleed the whole system 6 or 7 times since i've done it. i just bought some motul 600 off ebay and i'm gonna try that. i also bought 4 new factory nissan banjo bolts and copper washers this weekend. i'm currently running 2 smc bolts mixed with 2 factory bolts, because i broke 2 of the smc bolts by over-tightening the stainless lines to the calipers. i didn't know at the time that the bolts were only supposed to be tightened to about 20 ft./lbs.

i dont know if running mixed banjo bolts is causing some of the problem or not. i should have the new bolts and copper washers in by thursday; hopefully i'll have the motul fluid in by this weekend. then i will be able to change the fluid and put new bolts on; maybe that will help.

thanks again,
dan

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nizzan4u2nv

· #4 · Feb 19, 2004

Try running SS lines.

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dan7225

Discussion Starter · #5 · Feb 19, 2004

nizzan4u2nv said:
Try running SS lines.

i am currently running goodridge stainless lines. it's posted in the last sentence of the first paragraph.

thanks again,
dan

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nizzan4u2nv

· #6 · Feb 19, 2004

Opps, I need to fully wake up before I start posting.

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Michael-Dallas

· #7 · Feb 19, 2004

dan7225 said:
does anyone use that valvoline synthetic brake fluid from advance auto parts? when i done my last brake job i ran all new valvoline brake fluid through the lines. i have been having problems with poor braking ever since i've done that, the nx2000 brake upgrade, and new stainless lines.

I'm using it in the SE-R and 350. The 350 sees mucho heavy abuse considering it's been a weekend track car and I'm a late-braker. No problems. Of course, I flush the fluid in the 350 before every track weekend.

it snowed the other day and i slammed on the brakes to check how well the rear disc brakes were working. it was exactly as i expected. i had to push the brake pedal all the way to the floor as hard as i could to get the rear brakes to lock up (remind you this is on a long snow patch at my apt. complex). i would think the rear brakes would lock up a lot faster than that, especially on a snow packed driveway.

Why on earth would you want a silly thing like that to occur? Having the rears lock up [before the fronts] is not a good thing. Besides, brakes are front-biased and most of the braking is done w/ the front brakes.

well, back to the real question. can that valvoline synthetic brake fluid (which on the bottle says it maximizes ABS performance) be used in a non-ABS car? maybe this is why i have mushy brake feel (or maybe not)?

Oh yeah, my SE-R is non-ABS. Regardless, if your pedal goes all the way to the floor to start braking [the front wheels], then methinks you still have air in your brake lines. But if you're trying to lock up the rears, then that probably won't happen easy.

Michael.

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dan7225

Discussion Starter · #8 · Feb 20, 2004 (Edited)

Michael-Dallas said:
I'm using it in the SE-R and 350. The 350 sees mucho heavy abuse considering it's been a weekend track car and I'm a late-braker. No problems. Of course, I flush the fluid in the 350 before every track weekend.

Why on earth would you want a silly thing like that to occur? Having the rears lock up [before the fronts] is not a good thing. Besides, brakes are front-biased and most of the braking is done w/ the front brakes.

Oh yeah, my SE-R is non-ABS. Regardless, if your pedal goes all the way to the floor to start braking [the front wheels], then methinks you still have air in your brake lines. But if you're trying to lock up the rears, then that probably won't happen easy.

Michael.

i'm not trying to get the rear brakes to lock up before the fronts. i was just trying to point out the inadequate braking in the rear of the car. when i have to react quickly & brake heavily the front brakes will lock-up and the car just seems to skid down the road. my cousin drove my car and had to hit the brakes really hard to miss a deer. he hit it because the front brakes locked up and caused him to skid about 50 feet. hell, there is still a small ring of rust in the middle of the rotor on the driver's side rear. unfortunately, none of the calipers are leaking fluid from anywhere. atleast that would point me in the right direction.

i've ran an entire large bottle and one small bottle of valvoline brake fluid through the car since i've done the NX brake upgrade. i'm almost positive there is no air in the lines.

my brake pedal doesn't go all the way to the floor before the brakes start working. but i can push the pedal all the way to the floor while the car is sitting still. i would think it would be more like a rock from beginning to end with the parts that i have on it.

i have purchased 2 bottles of motul 600, 4 new banjo bolts, and new copper washers all the way around. i think i might try putting those on first (i have mis-matched banjo bolts on my car, 2 oem 2 goodridge bolts)and see if that helps. i over-tightened the bolts on the initial install. i broke 2 of the goodridge bolts.

If that doesn't work i'm going to buy a 96 altima SE master cylinder and put that on.

what do you think?

thanks you guys,
dan

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Michael-Dallas

· #9 · Feb 20, 2004

I can't lock up the rears on the SE-R on the street and I can't lock up the rears on the 350 at the track.

Here's an excellent article on Stoptech's website regarding brake performance: http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/brakebiasandperformance.htm

Just like the car that pushes its way through corners all day long, a car which is heavily front biased will be slow and frustrating, but relatively easy and benign to drive. On the other hand, like the oversteer monster that people are afraid to even drive around the paddock, a car which is severely rear biased will be a scary, twitchy ride resulting in a bad case of the white-knuckle syndrome. Envision an imaginary co-pilot yanking up on the park brake handle in the middle of every corner, and you begin to get the idea. While a rush to drive at speed, it will be horribly slow on the stopwatch.

You don't ever want to lock up the rears. Unless you're drifting.

Michael.

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dan7225

Discussion Starter · #10 · Feb 23, 2004

Michael-Dallas said:
I can't lock up the rears on the SE-R on the street and I can't lock up the rears on the 350 at the track.

Here's an excellent article on Stoptech's website regarding brake performance: http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/brakebiasandperformance.htm

Just like the car that pushes its way through corners all day long, a car which is heavily front biased will be slow and frustrating, but relatively easy and benign to drive. On the other hand, like the oversteer monster that people are afraid to even drive around the paddock, a car which is severely rear biased will be a scary, twitchy ride resulting in a bad case of the white-knuckle syndrome. Envision an imaginary co-pilot yanking up on the park brake handle in the middle of every corner, and you begin to get the idea. While a rush to drive at speed, it will be horribly slow on the stopwatch.

You don't ever want to lock up the rears. Unless you're drifting.

Michael.

i think i'm getting it now. i'm so glad there are smarter people than me in this world.

i think i'm beginning to understand what you so plainly said, "you dont ever want the rear brakes to lock up"

i think my problem is that i just have too much front brake bias. i was reading the article from stoptech and i think that i have come up with a couple of options that might help my situation.

thanx,
dan

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Michael-Dallas

· #11 · Feb 23, 2004

dan7225 said:
i think i'm getting it now. i'm so glad there are smarter people than me in this world.

Not necessarily smarter, just a little more knowledgeable in brake tech.

Michael.

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