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Track Whore
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Discussion Starter #1
I created the following dyno chart for those who want to know what to expect when buying upgrading from the s3/s4 cams to the c3 cams. I superimposed Rob Cadle's C3 dyno on my S3 dyno. The cars have similar mods otherwise. I like what I see and so should you.

http://www.geocities.com/ndahi12/s3_c3.htm

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Naji Dahi, aka Red Mist
Fast 1998 SE-R Last of the SE-Rs
Slow 1996 G20 (AGXs/G20t springs, K&N drop in filter)
 

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Turd Furgeson
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How much are they? I don't really have the loot anyway, but I'm wonderin'. The high port should be a little better esp. if its well groomed by it's owner (im assuming so). That's still a lot of power. But seriously, what is that graph made on oaktag?
 

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Track Whore
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1,120 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bennitto Mallito:
How much are they? I don't really have the loot anyway, but I'm wonderin'. The high port should be a little better esp. if its well groomed by it's owner (im assuming so). That's still a lot of power. But seriously, what is that graph made on oaktag?
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The cams come with srpings and retainers. The cost is $1200 for both cams and springs/retainers. Rob's high port is completely stock. The intake runners design will be the key to whether I will get the same gains as Rob did. I hope that my low port design will not be the issue. Only a dyno will tell. The graph was made using Excel.



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Naji Dahi, aka Red Mist
Fast 1998 SE-R Last of the SE-Rs
Slow 1996 G20 (AGXs/G20t springs, K&N drop in filter)
 

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Wow, that's impressive. I'm suprised at how well the midrange matches up.
I'd really like to hear about the valve spring install when you (and your brother or whoever) do it. And then see a dyno chart...

Is that C3 on both cams, or a c2/c3 combo?



[This message has been edited by jacen99SE (edited 05-09-2001).]
 

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How does drivability compare with the two? What about idle? how does that compare? Those C's pull hard up top but I don't if I would want to lose that low end for around town.

Looked at that again..THat's 20 extra horses!!! DANG!

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'95 200 SX SE-R
PR CAI; ACT Disc & PP; ES MM; Pro-Kits; 17* timing; now raising funds for AGX's

[This message has been edited by Toddles82 (edited 05-10-2001).]
 

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JordanWhiteMusic.com
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by horishima:
I would like to see a Dyno with the Springs, retainers, and S4 cams.. I'm just curious to see what the dynos would be with that set up..</font>
Hmm, cool idea. I hadn't thought about that. I wonder if they would work together?
 

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Track Whore
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1,120 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by jacen99SE:
Wow, that's impressive. I'm suprised at how well the midrange matches up.
I'd really like to hear about the valve spring install when you (and your brother or whoever) do it. And then see a dyno chart...

Is that C3 on both cams, or a c2/c3 combo?
[This message has been edited by jacen99SE (edited 05-09-2001).]
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I was surprised by the mid-range as well. I expected more losses in the mid-range from the C3 cams. The loss is below 3500. I can live with that. Yes, these are the C3 cams. and not the combo. You will probably need cam gears to tune these cams in. They are very sensitive to timing.

Once I get the cams and the cam gears and get them installed, I will take the car to a dyno for some tuning. I will post the sheet after that.



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Naji Dahi, aka Red Mist
Fast 1998 SE-R Last of the SE-Rs
Slow 1996 G20 (AGXs/G20t springs, K&N drop in filter)
 

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Track Whore
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1,120 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by horishima:
I would like to see a Dyno with the Springs, retainers, and S4 cams.. I'm just curious to see what the dynos would be with that set up..</font>
I am speculating here...but I do not think you will get much from springs/retainers with the S4 cams. The better option is to get some cam gear and tune the car on a dyno. That might gain at least 4 hp up top.


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Naji Dahi, aka Red Mist
Fast 1998 SE-R Last of the SE-Rs
Slow 1996 G20 (AGXs/G20t springs, K&N drop in filter)
 

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Track Whore
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Discussion Starter #12
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Toddles82:
How does drivability compare with the two? What about idle? how does that compare? Those C's pull hard up top but I don't if I would want to lose that low end for around town.

Looked at that again..THat's 20 extra horses!!! DANG!

</font>
Driveability is way better with the S3 cams than the C3 cams. But JWT seems to have found a good solution to the lumpy idle of the C3 cams. My new ECU (not in the car yet) was programmed to work with 25 degrees base timing. That high. It seems that at idle 25 degrees smooths the idle of the C3 cams. Then as you press the accelerator the ECU will retard the timing to 13-15 degrees. According to JWT that will smooth the idle issue.

Yes 19 hp gain to be exact and that is at 7100 cutoff. But keep in mind that the cars have different intake runner designs. That might produce less hp on my car (low port) than Rob's car (high port)



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Naji Dahi, aka Red Mist
Fast 1998 SE-R Last of the SE-Rs
Slow 1996 G20 (AGXs/G20t springs, K&N drop in filter)
 

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former pulsar car whore
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1,397 Posts
Thanks for the chart Naji. Hmm, I still can't decide. C3's or the 50 shot?

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Ryan 97 Black SER
advanced timing,custom 2.5" catback exhaust with dynomax super turbo muffler, Unorthodox Racing Pulleys, ES shifter Bushing, Hotshot Header, Hotshot CAI
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I would like to see a Dyno with the Springs, retainers, and S4 cams.. I'm just curious to see what the dynos would be with that set up..</font>
When we were talking about this on the main list when these first were discussed, I heard 2-3 hp above 7300 on the B14 by reducing the valvesprings harmonics. If you haven't heard a b14 above 7300, it sounds... mean but almost a bad sound. I heard it for the first time last night on my car.
 

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JordanWhiteMusic.com
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by jacen99SE:
If you haven't heard a b14 above 7300, it sounds... mean but almost a bad sound. I heard it for the first time last night on my car.
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Sweet! So now you have the JWT ECU? How much faster does it feel? SOTP impressions?
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Sweet! So now you have the JWT ECU? How much faster does it feel? SOTP impressions? </font>
I, uhh, need to go do some more testing. I'll get back to you in the Sentra SE forum(gotta get some traffic there somehow).

Jason
 

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newbie
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by nj1266:
Driveability is way better with the S3 cams than the C3 cams. But JWT seems to have found a good solution to the lumpy idle of the C3 cams. My new ECU (not in the car yet) was programmed to work with 25 degrees base timing. That high. It seems that at idle 25 degrees smooths the idle of the C3 cams. Then as you press the accelerator the ECU will retard the timing to 13-15 degrees. According to JWT that will smooth the idle issue.

Yes 19 hp gain to be exact and that is at 7100 cutoff. But keep in mind that the cars have different intake runner designs. That might produce less hp on my car (low port) than Rob's car (high port)

</font>

C3 Cams go all the way to fuel cut off. Wicked. But I feel sorry for all those rod bearings and rods that may be thrown trying to squeeze out that HP everyday. You know how weak our rod bearings are. I think those are the SR20's weakest link.
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Pretty White:
C3 Cams go all the way to fuel cut off. Wicked. But I feel sorry for all those rod bearings and rods that may be thrown trying to squeeze out that HP everyday. You know how weak our rod bearings are. I think those are the SR20's weakest link. </font>
Tell Rob that. He drives his SE-R almost daily with those C3's, and I've lost track of how many dyno pulls and how many track days that car has gone through with the C cams, and the car is still going strong. I was surprised that he made it to Texas all the way out from California for the SE-R Convention last year without A/C (it had nothing to do with the car's reliability... it was a certain other listmember who mooned him somewhere in New Mexico... hehe!)

--Andrew Phan
1998 200SX SE-R
1993 NX2000
 
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