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A.K.A. 2Fass240us
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I am building a 240-redtop combo solely for track use, and occasional street driving to auto-x events, etc. So basically I don't have to worry about the A/C condenser or other components, PS, and anything else not absolutely necessary for track use. Meaning that the A/C condenser will not be there to impede flow to the radiator. But I will obviously need better cooling systems for my car.

I was looking at which radiator to get to replace the stock SR one, but I have not yet tested the SR radiator for leaks or big dents. For now I was planning on using the stock side-mount intercooler. Somewhere down the road I would like to upgrade to a bigger/better radiator, FMIC, and an oil cooler. So I need some advice on the following components...

Radiator: I was thinking about the Koyo because it is so popular, but would this be suitable for extended track use? It occurs to me that I could use a V8 radiator from Summit and get better cooling (more fins, rows, etc) What are the other alternatives?

Intercooler: At this point I am leaning toward the GReddy R-SPL because of my preception of its cooling abilities, but I don't know how it'll affect spool-up (pressure loss, etc.) and power. So I was thinking that here again, Summit should have something to fit my application. I would be willing to go through the ordeal of buying end tanks and piping as long as it came out to the same price or less as the GReddy kit. Plus I have heard about small quality issues with the GReddy versus a Blitz LM.

Oil cooler: Most of the big-name JDM companies (Trust, Cusco, etc.) offer oil cooler kits, but they are in the $6-900 range, depending on which brand you choose. Permacool is on the other side of the coin because it's much less expensive...but is the quality comparable? Has anyone pieced together a kit that offers as much cooling as a lot of the kits on the market and uses quality components (Earl's fittings, etc), but doesn't break the bank?

Any help here would be greatly appreciated. I figured this would be a good place to post because we have so many people who actually race here. Thanks in advance.
 

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1) Don't assume you need a big radiator or oil cooler. Remove the AC stuff, get some aluminum flashing and seal the raditor in so that all the air that should reach it does (none by passes it). Get a set of gauges and test the setup before you spend the money. Everyone said I would need a radiator on the VE and I simply do not. On the hotest days I just run the heat a little.
2) Oil cooler is no place to save money. Russell and Earls both make good fittings. Russel is nicer IMHO. Either way plan on a good amount of money for a decent setup. $400 or so.
3) Try to not put the oil cooler in front of the radiator. Same with the intercooler. Seen some hood mount ones right in front of the engine. Just an idea.
 

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A.K.A. 2Fass240us
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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
98sr20ve said:
1) Don't assume you need a big radiator or oil cooler. Remove the AC stuff, get some aluminum flashing and seal the raditor in so that all the air that should reach it does (none by passes it). Get a set of gauges and test the setup before you spend the money. Everyone said I would need a radiator on the VE and I simply do not. On the hotest days I just run the heat a little.
A/C stuff has been removed, and I planned on making air-block plates out of sheet aluminum to direct air where I wanted it to go. I did plan on at least testing the SR radiator, if for no other reason than to sell when (if) I upgrade. And is there such a thing as too much radiator? I know someone running a V8 Ford radiator in his SR20DET-240SX, and thought about this as an option.

As for your VE not needing a big radiator, I am running the SR20DET, which would (I think) need more cooling because it's a turbo engine. Plus, the SCC project car had cooling "issues" with the stock SR radiator even running at stock boost. Which begs the question, what did guys in Japan do, if anything? I am still trying to figure this one out...


98sr20ve said:
2) Oil cooler is no place to save money. Russell and Earls both make good fittings. Russel is nicer IMHO. Either way plan on a good amount of money for a decent setup. $400 or so.
I was thinking in the $4-500 range for a good setup with nice connectors and a reasonably-sized core. So your estimate fits mine, which lends some confidence to my earlier cost guess. I will look into Russel fittings...do you happen to have a link handy? If not, I can Google it, but wanted some advice on a dependable place to purchase them.


98sr20ve said:
3) Try to not put the oil cooler in front of the radiator. Same with the intercooler. Seen some hood mount ones right in front of the engine. Just an idea.
I suppose an oil cooler in front of either a radiator or the intercooler robs either of the ability to cool effecively, even with a pass-through type oil cooler?

It's funny you mentioned a hood mount one, because that's one option I have considered using, although it would require some work to get the hood scoop and core setup for optimum cooling. I also thought about putting the oil cooler core where my ABS unit used to be, and ducting the inlet from either the hood and out at the windshield, or ducting to and from the right front fender. Any thoughts here? A fender mount one would be pretty trick, but take a lot of fabrication. But then again, so would a hood mount version...

Keep the advice coming:this helps a lot.

-Andy
 

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Shift_Munky said:
I was thinking in the $4-500 range for a good setup with nice connectors and a reasonably-sized core. So your estimate fits mine, which lends some confidence to my earlier cost guess. I will look into Russel fittings...do you happen to have a link handy? If not, I can Google it, but wanted some advice on a dependable place to purchase them.
Russell is real common. I got mine from Bat-Inc. Search Mocal thru the MSN search engine. It will be near the top.
 

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Radiator needs to be upgraded. Period. If you are gonna have it as a track car you bloody well need to upgrade that radiator. I would stay away from most copper core radiators unless you have an uber fan system to put as much air thru that sucker as possible. Koyo, Greddy, Yashio Factory all make radiators for our cars. I went with PWR because I wanted a large 2 core instead of medium 3 core. Cooling is of the utmost importance especially for a track car. I have the greddy oil pan on my sr as well to aid in keeping the oil cooled.

Your intercooler setup should be tailor made to your turbo setup. If you are sticking with stock flanged turbo (either stock or the gt2 series) then a Blitz LM sized intercooler would work. If you are going for something insane like a T-88H on a stroker kit, then you might consider the uber large 3core from HKS. Check the CFM caps for each intercooler to ensure you have a proper setup.

Oil cooler. this is where i cant stress enough the need for having one of these items. We are the only authorized dealer with Yashio Factory and he has told us over and over again that if you are gonna race SRs then you should get oil cooler. It will keep the longevity of the turbo intact as well as your internals. Im going to get an ARC oil cooler because I have an S14 and the placement on the chassis is grand! But if you want the economic and effective route, Most FD RX-7s came with stock oilcoolers. A visit to your local junkyard might have positive results for a few bucks :)
 

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A.K.A. 2Fass240us
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Nox240 said:
Radiator needs to be upgraded. Period. If you are gonna have it as a track car you bloody well need to upgrade that radiator. I would stay away from most copper core radiators unless you have an uber fan system to put as much air thru that sucker as possible. Koyo, Greddy, Yashio Factory all make radiators for our cars. I went with PWR because I wanted a large 2 core instead of medium 3 core. Cooling is of the utmost importance especially for a track car. I have the greddy oil pan on my sr as well to aid in keeping the oil cooled.
Good advice. I planned on running an upgraded radiator for track use, and had only planned on using the stocker to get me by in autocross until I could afford an upgrade. But now I am thinking that this should be one of the things I do before I even start the car. And which PWR did you get? I ask because I thought the Koyo was a 2-core, not a 3-core. What other parameters should I use when specifying one, other than inlet and outlet size, core size (for mounting purposes), and tube diameter?

Also, I was planning on putting the GReddy oil pan on while the engine was out...the finned housing, extra capacity, and baffles are extremely important to me since I will be running the car on track.

Nox240 said:
Your intercooler setup should be tailor made to your turbo setup. If you are sticking with stock flanged turbo (either stock or the gt2 series) then a Blitz LM sized intercooler would work. If you are going for something insane like a T-88H on a stroker kit, then you might consider the uber large 3core from HKS. Check the CFM caps for each intercooler to ensure you have a proper setup.
Right now we will probably run the stock turbo. An upgrade in a year or so will only see us at a Big28 or possibly a T28 variant. Basically we won't go past the ~400 crank hp that the LM is rated at. And you would recommend the LM over the R-SPL? I've heard that GReddy's fitments aren't always the best...


Nox240 said:
Oil cooler. this is where i cant stress enough the need for having one of these items. We are the only authorized dealer with Yashio Factory and he has told us over and over again that if you are gonna race SRs then you should get oil cooler. It will keep the longevity of the turbo intact as well as your internals. Im going to get an ARC oil cooler because I have an S14 and the placement on the chassis is grand! But if you want the economic and effective route, Most FD RX-7s came with stock oilcoolers. A visit to your local junkyard might have positive results for a few bucks :)
I will start to look into the FD oil cooler. It is not the first time I've heard about it being usable for the SR, which is cool. After some research, I may just place some phone calls to junkyards.

Thanks for all the feedback to date.

-Andy
 

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A.K.A. 2Fass240us
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Crono1321 said:
Yes a friend of mine uses FD oil cooler on his DET.
Has he endeavored to measure oil temps across the cooler, or taken temperatures before he installed the system? I'm curious to find out what results he obtained. Is there any way I can get in touch with this guy?
 

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I will ask him next time I see him, probably sometime this week.

Justin
 

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Nox240 said:
Radiator needs to be upgraded. Period. If you are gonna have it as a track car you bloody well need to upgrade that radiator.
I will say it one more time. Invest in some gauges as your first step. Get a Oil temp, Water temp and Oil Pressure. The first time you hit the track you will not be pushing the car that hard (if your smart). Watch the gauges, look at the readings during the straights. Then upgrade the piece that matters the most. It's called getting a baseline. Lot's of people say "upgrade x" but I have seen lots of track only cars that have the stock radiator for instance. You can accomplish a great deal with ducting vs a new radiator. Not saying you will not need it but if varies a little per car and setup.

Edit: I was able to determine that I needed a oil cooler on my VE by just hitting the highway in third gear hard for a little while. Temps shot up fast. You may not need to wait to get to the track to determine what your initial needs are for the car. Also, remember SCC and others race out in the desert. That is much tougher then the stuff I get on the east coast.
 

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I am not a 240 guy but IIRC I was reading something in SCC "new products" about a 240 radiator panel. I don't know how much it would help you, but here is the link.

www.ctcmotorsports.com

I looked on their site and they dont list this product yet. If you pick up the new SCC it is on page 236. :)
 

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SR20RACER said:
I am not a 240 guy but IIRC I was reading something in SCC "new products" about a 240 radiator panel. I don't know how much it would help you, but here is the link.

www.ctcmotorsports.com

I looked on their site and they dont list this product yet. If you pick up the new SCC it is on page 236. :)
Exactly, You can increase a radiator performance by over 20% with ducting alone. Thats better then the standard radiator upgrade that you get.
 

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Get a radiator, I had my SR with stocker radiator with ducting , did not compare to my KOYO 3 row that I upgraded to, the engine stayed cool enough you could run it hard and touch the valve cover and not burn your hand, it was hot but not near as hot as teh stock radiator, not even close, it cooled that motor so much it was not even believable, KOYO 3 Row all the way...
 

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Hey whats that about an air duct and where can I get one!? I have heard about them before.
 

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go on freshalloy and try to find the thread called "ultimate oil cooler" or something of that nature. basically it is a bo it yourself type of thing that costs way way less and has the same cooling efficentcy of those expensive brands.

now what's this about taking away the power steering? if you are going to be running larger rims and tires then have fun working your forearms out. trust me...try to move 17x8" rims is not fun or easy.

an fmic go with a bar and plate design. better flow properties than a tube and fin. go on ebay and look for some intercoolers that use Spearco cores.
 

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Oil coolers are not that hard. Those kits are good if you don't like making something from scratch. No matter what a good kit is going to cost $300 or more.
 

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98sr20ve said:
Oil coolers are not that hard. Those kits are good if you don't like making something from scratch. No matter what a good kit is going to cost $300 or more.

check the Freshalloy site under the 240sx...don't go and spend 1k+ on some "name brand" jdm product. there are people that race here in the US and all you need are some fittings for the engine and bam...got a oil cooler.
 

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A.K.A. 2Fass240us
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
barrigas14 said:
go on freshalloy and try to find the thread called "ultimate oil cooler" or something of that nature. basically it is a bo it yourself type of thing that costs way way less and has the same cooling efficentcy of those expensive brands.

now what's this about taking away the power steering? if you are going to be running larger rims and tires then have fun working your forearms out. trust me...try to move 17x8" rims is not fun or easy.

an fmic go with a bar and plate design. better flow properties than a tube and fin. go on ebay and look for some intercoolers that use Spearco cores.
1) I will search FA for the oil cooler thread you mentioned. Thanks for the lead.
2) Maybe I underestimate steering capability without PS, but I don't foresee it being a problem. What type of racing do you do where it gives you trouble? And what chassis are you referring to specifically? I would imagine FWD w/o PS would behave differently than RWD w/o PS. I plan on doing some autocross and it may give me some trouble there, but I imagine I will get used to it after awhile. Plus, my forearms aren't exactly weak to start with! :)
3) I had planned on using a Spearco core actually. I can appreciate all the bling bling JDM stuff, but I think a Spearco would suit my needs? Any other input here?
 

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Shift_Munky said:
1) I will search FA for the oil cooler thread you mentioned. Thanks for the lead.
2) Maybe I underestimate steering capability without PS, but I don't foresee it being a problem. What type of racing do you do where it gives you trouble? And what chassis are you referring to specifically? I would imagine FWD w/o PS would behave differently than RWD w/o PS. I plan on doing some autocross and it may give me some trouble there, but I imagine I will get used to it after awhile. Plus, my forearms aren't exactly weak to start with! :)
3) I had planned on using a Spearco core actually. I can appreciate all the bling bling JDM stuff, but I think a Spearco would suit my needs? Any other input here?

autox and track events..some drifting but i like the grip. anyways i have had a few people tell me that when they lose their PS it sucks. one guy was running a S14 with some 8" wide tires on it and he said it was a workout. i personally would keep it just from what he told me. he has been racing his S14 for many more years than me so i listen to what he tells me. but try it and see what happens. if you no like then hook it back up.

btw i use to drive a car w/o ps and the tires were a very skinny set. but when in park to move the steering wheel became a hassle. i wish it had ps some times. anyways i don't really know how the steering would be w/o ps...is there any draw back you have heard of?

my mind is kinda fried right now if this makes no sense.
 

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I run my 2450 lb s13 w/o ps as a daily driver. It is no big deal. The extra feedback is great. Parallel parking is very doable but does kinda suck.

It is much easier to run w/o ps after the pump has been removed and the system depressurized.
 
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