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91 SE-R
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I've been putting together the parts for a cat-back exhaust (stock rear muffler has rust through - gonna knock it all out at once).

I'm sharing info for those considering an (inexpensive) exhaust system. I almost popped for an HKS system as I want a quiet system, yet some power gain. Decided to save some bucks as there is not much HP to gain from cat-back.

Learned a lot from: www.geocities.com/n_dahi/exhaust/exhaust.htm , and searching archives. Settled on resonator part no 24201 thrush glasspack, 20" body, 25" overall, 2 1/4 ID, 3.5 cross section for $23.95 (tight fit but it'll go in), and part no 17219 ultra flo dynomax welded rear muffler for $59.95, 19" overall, 14" body, 2 1/2 inch ID. You can research the flo and parts at www.dynomax.com

Note: $25 rebate on mufflers until 16 July.

Check out http://www.a-1performance.com/ for lot's of info, and I bought both mufflers from them (very helpfull when you call the toll-free number).

http://www.jcwhitney.com/product.jhtml?CATID=14721&_requestid=40091 has low price mandrel bends (even though I'd prefer heavier than the 16 gauge they offer I went with it). I bought two 90 degree and 2 45 degree 2 1/4 inch for the 91 SE-R pipe layout (will get me real close). Total thus far is $132 with shipping minus upcoming $25 rebate, $107 total. Local muffler shop picked out, will go 2 1/4 inch pipe cat back to the rear muffler, then flare to 2 1/2 inch for the higher flowing rear muffler I picked out. Exhaust tip - could be none at all, transfer stock tip, or buy resonated - not sure yet.



Appreciate any comments
 

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Once you get this installed I'd be interested in how it works and what your exhaust sounds like. I also have a Eagle Talon with a HKS Catback and man it's to loud. I guess I want it all good moderate sound and performance.

I don't know about that tip. What I don't get is how does it sense the speed difference in the exhaust. And once it gets clogged with exhaust gunk wouldn't it be prone to sticking.

A friend on mine has an ITR and he has this baffler which is like a cap that attaches with allen screws to the exhaust tip with stand offs. Takes it off in just a minute for autocross and has even raced with and he said it didn't really effect the car much.
 
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AC7880,
Thanks for doing my research. I've been wanting to rig up a cheap exhaust system similar to what you're planning.

I'm confused about the pre bent mandren pipes you got. Are you planning on bring them to a muffler shop and having them weld it all together for you?

Any idea how much the muffler shop will charge?
 

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91 SE-R
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Discussion Starter #4
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Doug H:
AC7880,
Thanks for doing my research. I've been wanting to rig up a cheap exhaust system similar to what you're planning.

I'm confused about the pre bent mandren pipes you got. Are you planning on bring them to a muffler shop and having them weld it all together for you?

Any idea how much the muffler shop will charge?
</font>

Yep, taking the two mufflers, and 4 mandrel bends to a local muffler shop. They'll do the work as they wanted to do cat back for me, but with flowmasters they had in stock, and crush bends. Flowmasters are too loud for me, and I don't beleive they flow as well.

I asked if I could bring my own pieces parts and they said yep. Don't have a price firmed up yet, but I can always price shop around if it's out of range. I think they want the job for relief from the boredom of everyday muffler replacements, and they are into the import scene also. They'll supply the rest of the exhaust tubing, weld the "old" hangars on, and weld up the pipes and mufflers if all works out. Worst case I'll try a welding shop vs muffler shop.
 
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Well, tell me how everything goes. If it works out and sounds good, I'll definately go with the same setup.

How close a fit was that resonator? Looking at Dynomaxes homepage, the Thrush glasspack (no 24201) in only 2" while the next one (no 24205) adds an extra inch in length but increases the tube diameter to 2 1/4 inch.
 

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91 SE-R
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Discussion Starter #6
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Doug H:

How close a fit was that resonator? Looking at Dynomaxes homepage, the Thrush glasspack (no 24201) in only 2" while the next one (no 24205) adds an extra inch in length but increases the tube diameter to 2 1/4 inch.
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24205 adds 6" in overall length, which according to my tape measure on the 91 SER won't fit, and looking at photos at the link of dahi's car (in 1st post) wouldn't fit on a 200 SX either. If you want more diameter and additional sound volume check out the welded race bullet muffler part 24215 ($29)on the dynomax and A1 site with 2 1/2 " ID, but much shorter (16 1/2 overall). I had a tough time deciding between the bullet and the thrush, but went thrush for sound control (longer muffler = more sound control), and I wanted primarily a smaller pipe size (mostly 2 1/4 versus 2 1/2) to keep the exhaust volumn up. The bullet no doubt flows better - I couldn't find the flow numbers on thrush. I did go to the larger 2 1/2 inch final welded muffler because it flows so much better than the 2 1/4" stainless muffler (part 17282) at dynomax and A1 web sites. I also wanted the sleeper look of welded vs stainless. For a stainless in 2 1/2 inch final I'd use part 17283 ($92). Note: Dahi was able to use a longer rear muffler on the 200 sx than appears to fit on a classic (sway bar interferrence). Should have parts in hand in one week and on car in 2 weeks if all goes well.
 

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91 SE-R
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Discussion Starter #7
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Doug H:
Well, tell me how everything goes. If it works out and sounds good, I'll definately go with the same setup.

</font>
System is now on: first the cost:
A1 for two mufflers w shipping and Tx tax since I'm in Tx and so are they (see orig post) = $107
JCW mandrel bends w shipping $38
Local muffler shop (not the cheapest, but only one I was comfortable w in town) $162 including ex tip, custom exh metal hangars to orig equip rubber hangars, using all my peices parts vs theirs and absolutely great work
Total = $301 - $25 dynomax rebate I just filled out = $277 total

Performance: no perceived loss of bottom end, and I can feel increased top end (sorry - no dyno etc to back this up)

Sound: Similar to my Greddy on my Miata; quiet at idle, deep but a bit loud for my 45 Y/O ears under full load. Note I went w the short (14" can, 19" overall end dynomax muffler vs long end dynomax muffler (20"/25")as I wasn't sure it would fit on the classic between bumper and sway bar (it would have - but been tight). Also, I went small chrome tip vs resonated (resonated may have cut the "exh song" a bit).

Appearance and quality: Top notch! Discreet like I like, but high flow (straight thru design).

Next on the exh: Since I really like quiet, I'll either add sound deadening in the trunk, or go to the long dynomax (still w rebate) and sell my short one. The guys at the muffler shop, and a customer inquiring on custom exh for his car, all loved the sound - I'm just really into quiet (too many years on harleys and on the AF flight line).

Overall: Best bang for exhaust buck - highly recommend. I can e-mail and/or post some photos when I run it up on my ramps.

Regards to Dahi who put me on this path with his web - site (see orig post above for link)

Dan in Tx
 

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JordanWhiteMusic.com
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by AC7880:

They'll do the work as they wanted to do cat back for me, but with flowmasters they had in stock, and crush bends. Flowmasters are too loud for me, and I don't beleive they flow as well.
</font>
BWHAHHA!!
FLOWMASTERS?!?! Flowmasters really SUCK on 4 cylinders. Do they think theres a 5.0 v8 ford under the hood of your car? Oh man......
 

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JordanWhiteMusic.com
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All this talk of exhaust, let me tell list what I have done (I just got it last week):

I bought the Pacesetter cat-back exhaust (2 1/4" mandrel bends with resonator and muffler) for $150 from Nopi.

Since the Pacesetter muffler is NOT straight through, I didn't want to use it and bought a straight through universal 14" long by 8" wide Pilot stainless steel muffler.

The Pilot muffler did not include a tip so I went out and got a 3" Bro-Speed one.

Next, I took all this stuff to the muffler shop where they informed me that they could only use some of the Pacesetter piping for some dumb reason (I still never figured it out) They could use the B-pipe portion but said they needed to make a custom Axle back portion. After talking about it for awhile I finally agreed when they dropped the price.

So they made a custom crush-bent axle back portion. I told them I didn't want crush bends and thats all they had, so I told them to make the axle-back pipe 2.5" to compensate for the crush bends. Looking at the pipe now you can hardly tell it's crush as they did a really good job.


Yeah so anyways, my exhaust goes like this:

From the cat working back to the muffler

1. 2.25" Pacesetter B-pipe w/ resonator, connects to

2. 2.5" Custom axle-back pipe,
connects to

3. Pilot straight-thru muffler
connects to

4. Bro-Speed 3" tip



Impressions:

DEFINATE high end increase. After 5000rpms it makes a huge differnce. Sound level is not too bad although it's a bit louder than I wanted but I'm fine with it.


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Jordan White (Stormy)
'98 SE(R) w/ HS CAI, HS G3 Header, Custom 2.25" Exhaust, JWT s4 Cams, UR Pulleys, KYB AGX's, Eibach Sportlines, Courtesy STB's, ES Mounts & shifter bushing, PWST X-Drilled Rotors w/ Axxis MM Pads, 17" Borbet Type S's w/ 205/40 Kumhos, Nis-Knacks goodies
 
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Storm88000:
BWHAHHA!!
FLOWMASTERS?!?! Flowmasters really SUCK on 4 cylinders. Do they think theres a 5.0 v8 ford under the hood of your car? Oh man......
</font>
Elaborate. Sucka.


I mean, most all aftermarket mufflers sound sorta the same, just varying degrees. What makes my Flowmaster that much different?

P.S. I know that Flowmasters are chambered, smartass.

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'97 200SX SE-R
JWT Intake and ECU
2 1/4 Exhaust
Now equipped with competion racing MOMO floormats!!!$
 
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P.S.

(Please, please convince me to buy a real cat-back, like HKS. I really want one, but can't logically reason out the 4-500 bucks...)

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'97 200SX SE-R
JWT Intake and ECU
2 1/4 Exhaust
Now equipped with competion racing MOMO floormats!!!$
 

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JordanWhiteMusic.com
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Johnny GreenBack:
Elaborate. Sucka.


P.S. I know that Flowmasters are chambered, smartass.

</font>
Thats the main reason.

1. They sound HORRIBLE on 4 cylinders. Don't believe me? I had one on my 1993 Sentra XE like three years ago. It was horrible and nasty.

2. They look crappy

3. How many people do you know with imports going "yeah I got myself a set of flowmasters....."

LOL
 
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Storm88000:
Thats the main reason.

1. They sound HORRIBLE on 4 cylinders. Don't believe me? I had one on my 1993 Sentra XE like three years ago. It was horrible and nasty.

2. They look crappy

3. How many people do you know with imports going "yeah I got myself a set of flowmasters....."

LOL
</font>
Responses :
1) I do agree! I have one currently, see above.

2) I agree! They don't look nearly as good as a cylinder shaped chrome job.

3) BZZZT!! Not the answer I wanted. I don't really care what is trendy.

What I'm trying to get at is, performance wise, do you really think that chamber vs. straight thru really makes a difference?

As far as sound, it seems a lot of straight throughs sound crappy, just a differnet tone of crap.

Tell me what you think....

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'97 200SX SE-R
JWT Intake and ECU
2 1/4 Exhaust
Now equipped with competion racing MOMO floormats!!!$
 
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BTW, all---I'm not trying to be a jackass. I've been debating on changing up my exahust set up for awhile now. I just want to hear some pro and cons. Help this honky out!

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'97 200SX SE-R
JWT Intake and ECU
2 1/4 Exhaust
Now equipped with competion racing MOMO floormats!!!$
 
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AC7880,
Could you give a little more detail on how it sounds and exactaly how loud it is? Does it drone on the freeway? Is it a nice deep tone or is it blatty?
 
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Guys,

Why not just use a stock muffler? They are $113 from Courtesy Nissan. From research over at SE-R.net they seem pretty good on a stock to lightly modified motor. IMHO, the 1 or so extra hp that you might get isn't worth the extra noise. OTOH, a lot of folks like an aggressive exhaust note. Of course, if your planning on some heavy modifications it might be nice to know that your muffler won't be a bottleneck down the road.
Also, I just put one on my car and you really have to give it to Nissan as far as human engineering. I've worked on various other car exhausts (Porsche 914s, Fords, Chevys, VW's) and none of them were as simple as my 91'. Just turn a few bolts, put in the exhaust ring/gasket, bolt it up and go!

GHB

[This message has been edited by Greg Bell (edited 05-19-2001).]
 
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The stock muffler is terribly restrictive, at all RPM's. I've heard of people replacing only the muffler and gaining over 4 horsepower.

I took my muffler off once, just to see what it would be like and the car just took off. More torque too.
 
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Humm?

I don't doubt you. But I've read, on SER.net and on the list that the muffler is not a big choke point. One of the reviews is here:

www.se-r.net/header_exhaust/general.html

I did read that a certain number of very early cars had a restrictive exhaust, but that they were the exception. I've usually seen numbers like 1-3 hp quoted for most cars. 1-3 hp is a very, very small increase unless you are a dedicated to every last bit of power at all costs. With my luck I'd only get 1 hp at 8000 RPM and lose 50 hp under 7000
. Of course, I'm just waiting until I can find a good DET and all of this becomes moot!
GHB

[This message has been edited by Greg Bell (edited 05-19-2001).]
 

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91 SE-R
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228 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Doug H:
AC7880,
Could you give a little more detail on how it sounds and exactaly how loud it is? Does it drone on the freeway? Is it a nice deep tone or is it blatty?
</font>
Deep, not raspy or blatty. Quiet a idle, volumn under load floored, bit of a drone at freeway steady. If you go this path, try the 20" can size vs 14" can size I used. I now know it will fit 91-94 Sentras, and Dahi used 20" can on a 200SX. Resonated tip might help also?

I like it better than stock, but in the next 1-2 months will either add sound deadening, or try the 20" can size in 2 1/4 ID.

Doug and Trys - Hard, If you do your exhaust let me know how it comes out.

Dan
 
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I'll definately go with the 20" can in that case. Do you think I could fit a Thrush glasspack #24214 under there, which is 23" body 28" overall? That way I could go 2.5 inches all the way back.
 
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