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VZR Conversion
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1,898 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
ok i had a lil discussion/argument with AJRACER... he is claiming that the SR20DE-T outperforms a SR20VE-T

my opinion says not but here is the conversation of what we talked about for im not a guru at this.

feel free to comment on this etc.
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AjRaCeR805: DET's own
TMSRAC1NG: no
TMSRAC1NG: VET own
TMSRAC1NG: all
AjRaCeR805: stock for stock yea
TMSRAC1NG: yes
AjRaCeR805: but when modded, a DET owns
TMSRAC1NG: no
AjRaCeR805: yea
TMSRAC1NG: VET will murder DET
AjRaCeR805: ok
AjRaCeR805: tell me this
AjRaCeR805: whats the highest HP VET u know of?
TMSRAC1NG: do u know the highest VET know of
AjRaCeR805: i dont know
AjRaCeR805: what is it?
TMSRAC1NG: it on the sr20 forums
AjRaCeR805: but how much power is it making to the wheels?
TMSRAC1NG: SR20VE 187.4 hp @ 7000 rpm 144.6 ft-lb @ 6000 rpm
TMSRAC1NG: SR20DE 140.0 hp @ 6400 rpm 132.0 ft-lb @ 4800 rpm
TMSRAC1NG: brb
AjRaCeR805: stock
TMSRAC1NG: but turbo
TMSRAC1NG: VE will def outperform
TMSRAC1NG: the DE
AjRaCeR805: i know of 600whp DET's
AjRaCeR805: never heard of a VET
AjRaCeR805: tell me
TMSRAC1NG: VE are rare
TMSRAC1NG: that why it hard to hear of them
TMSRAC1NG: but im sure they can do over 600 HP
AjRaCeR805: i dunno
TMSRAC1NG: i believe it can
AjRaCeR805: no one has tried it
AjRaCeR805: no one knows the real potential of it
TMSRAC1NG: i know someone did it
TMSRAC1NG: but he just started
TMSRAC1NG: he on the sr20 boards
TMSRAC1NG: forgot his name
AjRaCeR805: it might be a worse car do boost than a GA
TMSRAC1NG: albert
TMSRAC1NG: ur thinkin crazy
AjRaCeR805: nah, everyone brags about the VE
AjRaCeR805: sure its good
AjRaCeR805: stock
AjRaCeR805: but turbo, who knows?
TMSRAC1NG: even modded
TMSRAC1NG: it good
AjRaCeR805: well, yea
AjRaCeR805: but for how long?
AjRaCeR805: the sr20de is proven
TMSRAC1NG: ask that on the sr20 forums
TMSRAC1NG: see what ur answer is
AjRaCeR805: heh
TMSRAC1NG: cuz im not a major guru
TMSRAC1NG: i jes believe it it outperforms the de stock
TMSRAC1NG: it should outperform
AjRaCeR805: it does
TMSRAC1NG: the de in
AjRaCeR805: stock
AjRaCeR805: but no one leaves it stock
TMSRAC1NG: yes
TMSRAC1NG: no one leave VE stock either
AjRaCeR805: well no one leaves any engine stock
AjRaCeR805: not even a GA16i!
TMSRAC1NG: but if the VE outperforms the DE stock the a modded VE should outperform the DE modded or turbo.
AjRaCeR805: not necessarily
AjRaCeR805: its a higher compression engine
TMSRAC1NG: that is my statement
AjRaCeR805: those dont take well to boost
TMSRAC1NG: well yea u can always change the compression
TMSRAC1NG: but i dont want to argue with stuff
AjRaCeR805: ha
TMSRAC1NG: that im not really understand all
TMSRAC1NG: so imma bring this to the boards.
AjRaCeR805: hahaha
TMSRAC1NG: =)
AjRaCeR805: dont put it on nissanforums
AjRaCeR805: those guys dont know anything
AjRaCeR805: do it on sr20forum
AjRaCeR805: those guys know about the sr
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enjoy!
 

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The Genesis
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3,169 Posts
the reason i say a DET will outperform a VET is because sure a VE *might* have more potential, i mean it has it stock per stock VE/DE. But there are plenty of DET's pushing 500-600whp.....i have yet to see a VET push any numbers that are up there, sure its a new engine and all, but for the time being i think the DET will win, until someone pushes the VET
 

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BANNED!!eleven
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840 Posts
the ve gets its power from its "extreme" cam profiles for the upper rpms. its always been my understanding that crazy cam profiles aren't very beneficial to turbo vehicles until less they are spinning to rather high rpms. i think mike k. covers it in one of his new threads. but i would go with a det.
 

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sleeper
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5,445 Posts
I think you need to clarify the arguement. Are we talking 1.DE with a turbo vs. VE with a turbo? OR 2. DET vs VE with a turbo? OR 3.DET vs. VET?
 

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Professor Dingbat
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5,543 Posts
I think what it boils down to is at 600HP the things that make a VE a VE are no longer useful or needed. If someone got a VET over here there would not be much point modding it very extensively when the same results can be acheived with a much cheaper DET
 

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Registered
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1,591 Posts
Carl Monopoli turbo'd a VE in an NX and I heard/read that it it was incredible, no numbers though. VVL does not benefit turbos as much, but I think tuning can change that. Also, Nissan put a VET in an SUV(or something) in Japan.
 

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Coropate greed hater
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Read my response on NF. It's not the complete answer, but I gave some info you could use to own AJ with.
 

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www.FAIRTAX.org
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8,920 Posts
I'm sure you could build a turbo VE thats more powerfull then turbo DE. It would not be very cost effective though compared to just going with a DE. So it most likely wouldn't be worth it unless you want to spend all that extra money just to have something unique.
 

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Registered
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Do we know what a turbo VE is capable of yet? It may be the more shapable powerband of the 2 motors. Changing the high RPM cam engagement will be a big factor...do we know these things yet?
 

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The Genesis
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3,169 Posts
gottabfast said:
Do we know what a turbo VE is capable of yet? It may be the more shapable powerband of the 2 motors. Changing the high RPM cam engagement will be a big factor...do we know these things yet?

as to my knowledge, no one really knows what a VET is capable of, but we all damn sure know what a DET is capable of........so harris, u havent owned ****. :eek:
 

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Coropate greed hater
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4,044 Posts
Oh I'm not going to own you, Liu will.

Also, here is my reply to the thing you said about my initial post on NF:

Dude, when you start adding variables like that, no one will be able to give you a definite answer, especially when no one has experience with the VET. Look at that site, read that info, and come to your own conclusions. I cannot and will not argue this mod-for-mod type of stuff, because simply put, there is just not much information out there for such an argument.

Let's see how many agree with me.
 

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sleeper
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5,445 Posts
I don't think anyone has imported a VET yet. It comes in the X-Trail in Japan, and mated to a CVT tranny if I remember correctly. Rated at the gentlemens agreement of 280ps or so in Japan. But the reason for all the VTEC, VVT-I, VVL, Double Vanos, etc. is to have the broadest powerband possible. No compromises, power down low and power up high. I'd imagine a VET would own a DET given similar levels of mods; not so much in ultimate power but usable power (i.e. more power down low).
 

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The Genesis
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3,169 Posts
as i stated on NF:

look, my argument is that up to this date.....the DET owns....maybe in due time when ppl experiment with the VET, the VET will own, i dont know, no one really knows, who knows how much boost the VE is capable of? just like no one really knows how much power a GA can really have in its FULL potential. just cuz the VE is a newer engine, does not mean its the best thing.....look at the QR25 sure it makes more power stock, but it will not boost and create as much power as the SR
 

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Coropate greed hater
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4,044 Posts
Dude, the QR is a darn truck motor. There is no comparison there.

Comparing SR class engines is more viable, by the way. Also, I'm talking about comparisons between a VET and DET, not a VE+T vs. DET. That's as useless as trying to comparing a DE+T with a DET, because there are limitations to the DE (I think you know what they are). Consequently a VE would also have it's limitations compared to a DET.

A mod-for-mod comparo can't really be made between a VE+T and a DET, simply because both are very different motors and one motor has inherent advantages over the other to begin with.

A VET vs. DET comparison would make more sense. That's what I'm trying to get to.
 

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Coropate greed hater
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4,044 Posts
Man, this guy...

Alright dude, that QR25DE engine is only regarded as a "performance" engine here in the USA. It was made initially as a truck motor, much like that damn KA24DE they put in the 240s.

Here is one example of the QR in a truck/SUV:

http://nissan-me.com/xtrail/xtrail_specifications.htm

That's the X-Trail in the Middle East. Also look up Nissan Mexico and see what engine the Mexican X-Trail has (which surprisingly has the QR25DE as well).

Look at the characteristics of the QR. In no way is it what you'd call a "performance" engine, and even Nissan knows that.

Please don't argue with me bro, please.
 

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The Genesis
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3,169 Posts
Harris said:
Please don't argue with me bro, please.

dont get mad princess :rolleyes:


talking about stock vs stock is pointless harris, please dont ever compare them like that.....because no one buys a DET and leaves it stock. like i said, show me a VET that will own a DET when its all said and done......theres a reason no one is boosting a QR, u know why dont u? it cant handle it. do u know if a VET can handle enough boost to do over 600whp? u dont? neither do i, so untill somone shows dyno numbers, keep ur mouth shut, leave it at that
 

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Coropate greed hater
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4,044 Posts
Whatever. If you can't get what I'm saying through your head, then what anyone else says is pointless as well. I'm out of here.
 

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The Genesis
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3,169 Posts
Harris said:
Whatever. If you can't get what I'm saying through your head, then what anyone else says is pointless as well. I'm out of here.

get what thru my head? the fact that no one knows that a VET is capable of? how come everyone thought the DET was the ****, but as soon as the VE/VET came out, everyone started knocking the DET? not knowing the REAL potential of the VET
 
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