Drop a QR25DE in?

borguesian · Apr 12, 2001

Since the mounts are probrably the same in all the SR20 cars as the QR25 cars are going to be, how cost efficient do you think droping a QR25DE from a wrecked 02 Altima or Sentra SE-R would be? Since I have seen people with a whole crap load of bolt ons still not getting 180hp, don't you think that paying a couple Gs and droping in a proven 180hp engine would be a better investment if you plan on staying N/A? What do you think 1/4 mile times would be since the QR is supposed to be lighter than the SR? One other advantage... If the tranny matches up to and your lucky you may be able to get the 6-sp from an SE-R. Now tell me that wouldn't be a awsome car! B13/B14 w/ 180hp 2.5L w/ 6-sp manual! Talk about a Civic/Celica eater

.

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Greg Taylor
96 SE-R w/ stuff
My Page

Storm88000 · Apr 12, 2001

Originally posted by borguesian:
Since I have seen people with a whole crap load of bolt ons still not getting 180hp

Ok, well what you must remember is that the horsepower they are making is at the WHEELS. Alot of SE-R's w/ bolt ons are making 180hp at the crank easy. Hell Rob Cadles car made 168hp to the wheels......factor in the drivetrain loss, and thats alot more power than the new SE-R will make.

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Jordan White (Stormy)
'98 SE(R) w/ goodies
15.1 @ 90mph at Englishtown, NJ

borguesian · Apr 12, 2001

oh ok, I stand corrected. I was mislead in one of my other posts.

Storm88000 · Apr 12, 2001

I do really like the idea of dropping in the 6 speed tranny. Ahh

nice

Pit_Viper · Apr 12, 2001

Originally posted by Storm88000:
Ok, well what you must remember is that the horsepower they are making is at the WHEELS. Alot of SE-R's w/ bolt ons are making 180hp at the crank easy. Hell Rob Cadles car made 168hp to the wheels......factor in the drivetrain loss, and thats alot more power than the new SE-R will make.

I beg to differ. Alot of bolt-on SE-Rs are making 180 crank HP? Assuming 15% drivetrain loss, an SE-R that makes 180 crank HP will have to make ~153 wheel HP. Maybe I haven't been looking too hard, but I haven't seen too many NA SE-Rs dyno greater than 153 wheel HP. Granted, Rob Cadle's car is making just under 200 crank HP assuming 15% drivetrain loss (I'm using my formula, by the way), but he's using cams that are not even available to the public yet.

Also, even if a bolt-on B13/B14 SE-R makes 180 peak crank HP, there's no way it would be able to match the 180 ft-lbs peak torque that the QR25DE is making. "Area under the curve" is the key phrase here. Match that up with a six-speed transmission, and I think it would no doubt be worth it. And also consider the fact that this would be a stock QR25DE...

I've been pondering this swap for a while, and I also wonder how involved it would be, how much it would cost, and whether or not it would work at all. I'm surprised that very few people are considering this.

horishima · Apr 12, 2001

Plus you gotta figure all the bolt ons the QR will have in the future..

Guest · Apr 12, 2001

if you're getting the engine, wouldn't you get the ecu, harness, etc with it?

Storm88000 · Apr 12, 2001

Originally posted by Pit_Viper:
I beg to differ. Alot of bolt-on SE-Rs are making 180 crank HP?

I can think of a pretty good amount of SE-R's making 180 crank HP. One lives about 10 minutes from my house and makes 150hp with just bolt ons and not even UR pulleys. 150hp probably won't equate to 180hp at the crank, but close enough.

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Jordan White (Stormy)
'98 SE(R) w/ goodies
15.1 @ 90mph at Englishtown, NJ

Storm88000 · Apr 12, 2001

Originally posted by Pit_Viper:
Granted, Rob Cadle's car is making just under 200 crank HP assuming 15% drivetrain loss (I'm using my formula, by the way), but he's using cams that are not even available to the public yet.

Actually, the C series cams *ARE* available from JWT now. Ryan Walsh is selling his s4's for a set of C's.

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Jordan White (Stormy)
'98 SE(R) w/ goodies
15.1 @ 90mph at Englishtown, NJ

Storm88000 · Apr 12, 2001

Originally posted by Pit_Viper:
Also, even if a bolt-on B13/B14 SE-R makes 180 peak crank HP, there's no way it would be able to match the 180 ft-lbs peak torque that the QR25DE is making....

I'm surprised that very few people are considering this.

You're definately right, the QR will be making GOBS more torque than a bolt-on SR. But hey, the SR20 is almost 12 years old and the QR25 is brand new. It's a sign of the times. I mean come on, a friggin 2002 ALTIMA, probably Nissans weakest vehicle of the past few years is going to have 240 horsepower. Unbelievable!

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Jordan White (Stormy)
'98 SE(R) w/ goodies
15.1 @ 90mph at Englishtown, NJ

Pit_Viper · Apr 12, 2001

Originally posted by Storm88000:
Actually, the C series cams *ARE* available from JWT now. Ryan Walsh is selling his s4's for a set of C's.

Yes, the C2 cams are available now... but Rob made just under 200 HP with the C3 cams, which won't be available for another couple of months. (At least I won't be tempted to dump another large sum of money into the SE-R for another few months...)

nj1266 · Apr 13, 2001

Originally posted by Pit_Viper:
Yes, the C2 cams are available now... but Rob made just under 200 HP with the C3 cams, which won't be available for another couple of months. (At least I won't be tempted to dump another large sum of money into the SE-R for another few months...)

I just placed an order for the C3 cams. They are not available yet. but I want to be the first to get them when they become available

I was charged $1160 for the cams, springs, and retainers. Ben @ JWT says that the cams should be available in a couple of weeks. Even if he is too optimistic on the ETA, I do not mind the wait. I also ordered a used 95 SE-R ECU from Auto Gator. I will send it to JWT to reprogram it to work with the C3 cams. My car will be revving to 8K very soon

No one will ever mess with me on the straights of Big Willow ever again

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Naji Dahi, aka Red Mist
Fast 1998 SE-R Last of the SE-Rs
Slow 1996 G20 (AGXs/G20t springs, K&N drop in filter)

Storm88000 · Apr 13, 2001

Originally posted by nj1266:
I also ordered a used 95 SE-R ECU from Auto Gator. I will send it to JWT to reprogram it to work with the C3 cams. My car will be revving to 8K very soon

No one will ever mess with me on the straights of Big Willow ever again

Congrats Naji!! Can you please let me know exactly how much the 95 ECU was? Help a fellow 98 owner out

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Jordan White (Stormy)
'98 SE(R) w/ goodies
15.1 @ 90mph at Englishtown, NJ

RPWSER · Apr 13, 2001

Originally posted by Pit_Viper:
I beg to differ. Alot of bolt-on SE-Rs are making 180 crank HP? Assuming 15% drivetrain loss, an SE-R that makes 180 crank HP will have to make ~153 wheel HP. Maybe I haven't been looking too hard, but I haven't seen too many NA SE-Rs dyno greater than 153 wheel HP. Granted, Rob Cadle's car is making just under 200 crank HP assuming 15% drivetrain loss (I'm using my formula, by the way), but he's using cams that are not even available to the public yet.

Maybe you havent been looking that hard. There is more than just a handful making a lot of power out of this engine. Just becasue YOU don't know them all, doesnt mean they arent there. Hell, there are plenty of SR20 owners that im sure have done stuff to their car, and have never even heard of this board or our mailing list. Also, i think you are confusing Kojima's car with Rob's. robs car made 168whp wiht the C cams, Kojimas car is the one just short of 200hp. And maybe you havent been told, but it was announced on this board, and the mailing list, that the C cams are indeed available. Also, "your formula" may not even be the correct way to figure HP, so don't tell others on this board that they are wrong, when they have had much more experience working with #'s the way Rob has been doing it, the "right way."

Also, even if a bolt-on B13/B14 SE-R makes 180 peak crank HP, there's no way it would be able to match the 180 ft-lbs peak torque that the QR25DE is making. "Area under the curve" is the key phrase here. Match that up with a six-speed transmission, and I think it would no doubt be worth it. And also consider the fact that this would be a stock QR25DE...

I think that you are forgetting a lot of things when you talk about swapping the QR into our car. before you just picture the engine dropping right into your car you have to use your head. To many...apparently not u...this is not feasable, or worth while. You have to realize its not that easy. Have yo seen the motor mounts in the car? How do you know if they are the same? Then you have to think, gee, maybe the engine just plain wont fit. *IF* it does, then you will have to go ahead and change the tranny, cuz the one you have right now will *not*(im pretty sure, if not i stand corected) fit, then you have to change your half shafts and all that bs, plus what about he ecu..will that work with the new engine? No. what about the wiring harnesses? will they work? No. What about the exhaust lining up with the QR manifold? Nope. Im sure there is some stuff i am missing, but you get my point. If anyone feels like elaborating or flaming, feel free. im open to opinions and critisizm.

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Ryan Walsh, 1997 200sx SE-R w/ ES mounts, JWT s4's, AEBS 4-1, PR CAI, Greddy cat-back, Sportlines/AGX's, Bridgestone re730's, Stillen GTR grill

nj1266 · Apr 13, 2001

Originally posted by Storm88000:
Congrats Naji!! Can you please let me know exactly how much the 95 ECU was? Help a fellow 98 owner out

Sure. It is $225 plus shipping. their number is 1-800-252-6662. Hope they find one for you. I did this because JWT will not get us an ECU until next winter. That is a long wait. Call me too competitive but I hate being slower than others on the track. I love being the little 200SX that kicks the ass of every goddamn 30K+ car on the track

you should see the look on their faces when beemer owners see an econbox just gave them a woopin

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Naji Dahi, aka Red Mist
Fast 1998 SE-R Last of the SE-Rs
Slow 1996 G20 (AGXs/G20t springs, K&N drop in filter)

Storm88000 · Apr 13, 2001

Originally posted by nj1266:
Sure. It is $225 plus shipping. their number is 1-800-252-6662. Hope they find one for you. I did this because JWT will not get us an ECU until next winter.

You're right that is a long time to wait. Ok now fill me in here. You bought the '95-97 ECU for $225. Now you send it to JWT, do they charge another $500 to reprogram it? Or am I missing something here?

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Jordan White (Stormy)
'98 SE(R) w/ goodies
15.1 @ 90mph at Englishtown, NJ

kpw97 · Apr 13, 2001

A good comment was made on the mailing list. The ECU would definitely be a question. The QR does not use a throttle cable. So, that is another conversion that would need to be thought about. I have no doubt, however, that it could be done. And be a very exciting project at that. I'd consider it

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Kevin
93 Classic
Bone Stock

nitrous_50 · Apr 13, 2001

RPWSER, when are you selling your s4's? If you don't have anybody in mind I very interested in purchasing them from you. How many miles are on them? Let me know what's the scoop!

Pit_Viper · Apr 13, 2001

Originally posted by RPWSER:

Maybe you havent been looking that hard. There is more than just a handful making a lot of power out of this engine. Just becasue YOU don't know them all, doesnt mean they arent there. Hell, there are plenty of SR20 owners that im sure have done stuff to their car, and have never even heard of this board or our mailing list.

You're sure these owners exist? Show us names and dyno charts. Otherwise, everything you've just said is wild speculation. I don't mind being wrong, but I'd like to be proven wrong, and not declared wrong by "unusual possibilities."

I was on IRC with Andreas Miko (sp?) and others a few days ago, and they do indeed have some fast NA SE-Rs. But once again, they are a handful of people.

Also, i think you are confusing Kojima's car with Rob's. robs car made 168whp wiht the C cams, Kojimas car is the one just short of 200hp. And maybe you havent been told, but it was announced on this board, and the mailing list, that the C cams are indeed available.

Read. I just stated that the C3 cams are not available yet. Naji stated the same thing, and that was previously stated on this board in that same thread of which you speak.

Also, how are you so sure that 168 WHP is not approximately 200 crank HP?

Also, "your formula" may not even be the correct way to figure HP, so don't tell others on this board that they are wrong, when they have had much more experience working with #'s the way Rob has been doing it, the "right way."

I describe "My formula" is in this thread:
http://laf.cioe.com/~benbobbo/NonCGI/Forum1/HTML/000885.html

Once again, please tell my why I'm wrong, instead of speculating and attacking me.

I think that you are forgetting a lot of things when you talk about swapping the QR into our car. before you just picture the engine dropping right into your car you have to use your head. To many...apparently not u...this is not feasable, or worth while. You have to realize its not that easy. Have yo seen the motor mounts in the car? How do you know if they are the same? Then you have to think, gee, maybe the engine just plain wont fit. *IF* it does, then you will have to go ahead and change the tranny, cuz the one you have right now will *not*(im pretty sure, if not i stand corected) fit, then you have to change your half shafts and all that bs, plus what about he ecu..will that work with the new engine? No. what about the wiring harnesses? will they work? No. What about the exhaust lining up with the QR manifold? Nope. Im sure there is some stuff i am missing, but you get my point.

Re-read what I wrote:

"I've been pondering this swap for a while, and I also wonder how involved it would be, how much it would cost, and whether or not it would work at all. I'm surprised that very few people are considering this."

I explicitly said I don't know how involved it would be, or whether or not it would work at all. Please, read and think before "flaming" somebody.

Is it a trait of SE-R owners to exhibit unecessary hostility? I see this all of the time on the National Mailing list, and now here.

Now I know why SE-R owners get bashed so much on ClubSi...

Storm88000 · Apr 13, 2001

Hey Pit, I don't know what was up with RPW, maybe he had a bad day

He's not a pissed off person in real life. I've known him since he was a little kid, and I think he's done allright for himself.

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Jordan White (Stormy)
'98 SE(R) w/ goodies
15.1 @ 90mph at Englishtown, NJ

Drop a QR25DE in?

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