Dyno trivia

Storm88000 · May 6, 2001

Can anyone guess what the following car with the following mods pulled on the dyno today?? :

Car:
1997 200sx SE-R, 80,000 miles, 5 speed:

Mods:
AEBS header
Place Racing cold air intake
JWT s4 cams

Any guesses?!? In case you haven't figured it out this is RPW200sxSER's car. He dynoed it today at Carlisle. Reply with your best guess at top HP and top torque and then I'll post what it really was soon.

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Jordan White (Stormy)
'98 SE(R) w/ HS CAI, HS G3 Header, JWT s4 Cams, UR Pulleys, KYB AGX's, Eibach Sportlines, Courtesy STB's, ES Mounts & shifter bushing, PWST X-Drilled Rotors w/ Axxis MM Pads, 17" Borbet Type S's w/ 205/40 Kumhos, Nis-Knacks goodies

[This message has been edited by Storm88000 (edited 05-06-2001).]

Storm88000 · May 6, 2001

For reference, the following car dynoed at 150hp:

Car: 1998 Sentra SE, 55-60k miles, 5 speed

Mods: Hotshot G3 header, Place Racing cold air intake, Greddy cat-back exhaust, JWT s3 cams, JWT ECU (with S3 cam protocol)

That was Ray Kawski's 150hp to the wheels bitch.

RPWSER · May 6, 2001

hehehehe....

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Ryan Walsh, 1997 200sx SE-R w/ ES mounts, JWT s4's, AEBS 4-1, PR CAI, Sportlines/AGX's, Bridgestone re730's, Matrix FSTB, Stillen GTR grill

RollcageSR20 · May 6, 2001

Could you provide the atmospheric conditions for the day Ryan's car was dyno'd (i.e. ambient temp, barometric pressure, correction factor, etc... whatever conditions the dynojet reads.) If I were to guess right now, I'd say 148hp, 130lb/ft, but it might change once my question is answered.

--Andrew Phan
1998 200SX SE-R
1993 NX2000

[This message has been edited by RollcageSR20 (edited 05-06-2001).]

Storm88000 · May 6, 2001

Originally posted by RollcageSR20:
Could you provide the atmospheric conditions for the day Ryan's car was dyno'd (i.e. ambient temp, barometric pressure, correction factor, etc... whatever conditions the dynojet reads.) If I were to guess right now, I'd say 148hp, 130lb/ft, but it might change once my question is answered.
--Andrew Phan
1998 200SX SE-R
1993 NX2000
[This message has been edited by RollcageSR20 (edited 05-06-2001).]

All I know is it was about 60 degrees. Sorry. Any other guesses?

------------------
Jordan White (Stormy)
'98 SE(R) w/ HS CAI, HS G3 Header, JWT s4 Cams, UR Pulleys, KYB AGX's, Eibach Sportlines, Courtesy STB's, ES Mounts & shifter bushing, PWST X-Drilled Rotors w/ Axxis MM Pads, 17" Borbet Type S's w/ 205/40 Kumhos, Nis-Knacks goodies

Lyn Labahn · May 6, 2001

Hard to say if he doesn't have the ECU, since I believe peak power is past 7100 with s3's, right?

jacen99SE · May 7, 2001

Any guesses?!

What was the timing?

I believe peak power is past 7100 with s3's, right?

No, its about 6800-6900.

Pit_Viper · May 7, 2001

Originally posted by Lyn Labahn:
Hard to say if he doesn't have the ECU, since I believe peak power is past 7100 with s3's, right?

He has the S4 cams. Power peak (or power "plateau") with the S4 cams is someting in the neighborhood of 6500-7100 RPM. (At least that's where my car made its peak HP, and the SCC cam shout-out results were similar.)

Because I'm so generous (hehe), I'm going to give him 157 WHP, and 132 ft-lbs of torque at the wheels.

Nevermind, just tell us! Enough suspense, heh.

MarC · May 7, 2001

If I had to guess I would say around 138.2hp 117.7lb. ft. at the wheels. What do I win?

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MarC

hood made transparent for your viewing pleasure http://members.home.net/mnmanderson/Publish/
AIM SER96MarC

Pit_Viper · May 7, 2001

Originally posted by MarC:
If I had to guess I would say around 138.2hp 117.7lb. ft. at the wheels. What do I win?

Hehe...

I just saw the results on ClubSi.

I wonder how much the ECU and Cat-back exhaust would add...

jacen99SE · May 7, 2001

117.7lb. ft

Thats it ?!! Can you post a chart?

I wonder how much the ECU and Cat-back exhaust would add...

I'll have that answered by the end of the summer. ECU should be here this week.

[This message has been edited by jacen99SE (edited 05-06-2001).]

Storm88000 · May 7, 2001

Yeah, I think some of you guys were overly optimistic

It was 138hp and 117lbs of torque. We think his EGR is still causing problems.

Storm88000 · May 7, 2001

Also, I really think not having the JWT ECU is hurting the low end torque. And surely the peak HP number would be like 145 with the ECU, as the revs will hit much higher than 7100.

RollcageSR20 · May 7, 2001

Originally posted by Storm88000:
We think his EGR is still causing problems.

One way to find out is to clean out the EGR and BPT. However, I don't see how the EGR could affect dyno readings, since the EGR is shut off during WOT (ECU is in open loop mode at WOT, also.)

Also, the stock exhaust system becomes a restriction point once cams have been added to the mix. I'm sure if a free-flowing muffler was used, a few HP could be had. Timing is another thing to check. The JWT S3 and S4 cams DO NOT like advanced timing. 15 degrees seem to be the optimum setting for the JWT S3/S4 cams, however, the next time there's an opportunity to dyno again, I would try it at 13, 15, and 17 degrees to see what the car likes. Another thing to check would be tire pressures and the alignment. Extreme toe-in or toe-out could skew dyno numbers by a few HP. Also, the cam timing might be off, although it's unlikely if the install went without any mishaps, or monkey dung.

FYI, my SE-R made 143.8hp and 128.4lb/ft with the S3 cams and the JWT S3/S4 ECU program and the rest of the bolt-on's. So, I would hope once all the variables have been checked, and you've upgraded to the JWT ECU, and a free-flowing muffler (or full cat-back), you should be at least in the high 140's/low 150's for HP, and low-to-mid 130's for torque.

--Andrew Phan
1998 200SX SE-R
1993 NX2000

[This message has been edited by RollcageSR20 (edited 05-06-2001).]

Storm88000 · May 7, 2001

Originally posted by RollcageSR20:
One way to find out is to clean out the EGR and BPT. However, I don't see how the EGR could affect dyno readings, since the EGR is shut off during WOT (ECU is in open loop mode at WOT, also.)

Also, the stock exhaust system becomes a restriction point once cams have been added to the mix. I'm sure if a free-flowing muffler was used, a few HP could be had. Timing is another thing to check. The JWT S3 and S4 cams DO NOT like advanced timing. 15 degrees seem to be the optimum setting for the JWT S3/S4 cams, however, the next time there's an opportunity to dyno again, I would try it at 13, 15, and 17 degrees to see what the car likes. Another thing to check would be tire pressures and the alignment. Extreme toe-in or toe-out could skew dyno numbers by a few HP. Also, the cam timing might be off, although it's unlikely if the install went without any mishaps, or monkey dung.

FYI, my SE-R made 143.8hp and 128.4lb/ft with the S3 cams and the JWT S3/S4 ECU program and the rest of the bolt-on's. So, I would hope once all the variables have been checked, and you've upgraded to the JWT ECU, and a free-flowing muffler (or full cat-back), you should be at least in the high 140's/low 150's for HP, and low-to-mid 130's for torque.

--Andrew Phan
1998 200SX SE-R
1993 NX2000

Andrew, as far as his EGR causing problems, it's not the EGR system itself. The AEBS header he has installed is rigged up as far as the EGR goes. It's leaking we think.

Ryan had a full 2.5" cat-back Courtesy exhaust up until Salt fest where he sold it to Ben Davis and put a stock one back one.

I bet he wishes he still had it.

I believe his timing is at 15 degrees also.

------------------
Jordan White (Stormy)
'98 SE(R) w/ HS CAI, HS G3 Header, JWT s4 Cams, UR Pulleys, KYB AGX's, Eibach Sportlines, Courtesy STB's, ES Mounts & shifter bushing, PWST X-Drilled Rotors w/ Axxis MM Pads, 17" Borbet Type S's w/ 205/40 Kumhos, Nis-Knacks goodies

RPWSER · May 7, 2001

plyin

Originally posted by RollcageSR20:
One way to find out is to clean out the EGR and BPT. However, I don't see how the EGR could affect dyno readings, since the EGR is shut off during WOT (ECU is in open loop mode at WOT, also.)

<ghetto mode on> We somehow stripped the EGR fitting that goes into the header, so what i did was this, cut off the egr tube at the solenoid, blocked off the solnoid(so its not longer functioning) and i jammd the fitting into my header as best i could for now, with the remaining piece of tube coming from the egr fitting i stuck a piece of heater hose over that and stuck a socket extention in that to plug it(its all i had layin around!!)<ghetto mode off> So right now i have a leak there, cuz i didnt do the greatest job pluggin it up, and i ALSo have a leak on my downpipe where there is a hole for a EGT probe. They did not send me a plug for that so i just suck a screw in there for now, which i know is not the right size, bu its all i had layin around. So, i know i am hurting there, cuz i can hear the leaks when i get on it hard. Im having a frend weld both holes shut for me, when i have time. I only dynoed this weekened cuz i wanted to, i wasnt expectng anythign spectacular.

Also, the stock exhaust system becomes a restriction point once cams have been added to the mix. I'm sure if a free-flowing muffler was used, a few HP could be had.

I know that, and i had plannd on buying a Greddy form someone not long ago, but it fell through. I had the Courtesy, but 2.5 inch pipes are no good on a NA sr20, trust me plus it was just plain ****in loud.

The JWT S3 and S4 cams DO NOT like advanced timing. 15 degrees seem to be the optimum setting for the JWT S3/S4 cams, however, the next time there's an opportunity to dyno again, I would try it at 13, 15, and 17 degrees to see what the car likes.

I have my timing set at 15 degrees, and this has ben verified by more than one person, so its right.

Another thing to check would be tire pressures and the alignment. Extreme toe-in or toe-out could skew dyno numbers by a few HP.

Checked my tire pressures before i left for carlisle and they wee god. Alignment is fine.

Also, the cam timing might be off, although it's unlikely if the install went without any mishaps, or monkey dung.

Cam timing is right on. When i first did the cams car wouldnt start, went back in and check and it was off by 2 rollers, i fixed that. car runs fine.

FYI, my SE-R made 143.8hp and 128.4lb/ft with the S3 cams and the JWT S3/S4 ECU program and the rest of the bolt-on's. So, I would hope once all the variables have been checked, and you've upgraded to the JWT ECU, and a free-flowing muffler (or full cat-back), you should be at least in the high 140's/low 150's for HP, and low-to-mid 130's for torque.

In the next couple months i will be getting the ECU, and a Greddy. I will also be callin JWT up and ordering some cam gears, cuz i want a litle more low end(thats where the s4's hurt). Kojima said he got a couple horsey power advancing the exhaust cams 2.5 degrees, so im gonan try that. Hell they cant hurt for 150 bucks. The holes in my header are hurting the torque i think, i dont think ill gain hp when i fix those up. We'll see.

------------------
Ryan Walsh, 1997 200sx SE-R w/ ES mounts, JWT s4's, AEBS 4-1, PR CAI, Sportlines/AGX's, Bridgestone re730's, Matrix FSTB, Stillen GTR grill

[This message has been edited by RPWSER (edited 05-07-2001).]

RollcageSR20 · May 7, 2001

Originally posted by Storm88000:
Andrew, as far as his EGR causing problems, it's not the EGR system itself. The AEBS header he has installed is rigged up as far as the EGR goes. It's leaking we think.

Ah... I was under the impression that the AEBS header that's in Ryan's car has the EGR fitting. Again, I still don't think it will cause a problem, since there wouldn't be any exhaust gases being recirculated into the intake manifold at WOT, however, I could be wrong on that. What Ryan can do--and I'm sure he's already thought of this--is to get a JWT ECU with the EGR deleted from the program. He should still pass smog, as long as the smog-check machine thingy doesn't check for NOx emissions, since his car is spewing a lot of that now that the EGR is plugged up (If you don't have smog checks, all the better!)

Ryan had a full 2.5" cat-back Courtesy exhaust up until Salt fest where he sold it to Ben Davis and put a stock one back one.

I bet he wishes he still had it.

I'm sure that would have made a difference. =)

Originally posted by RPWSER:
So right now i have a leak there, cuz i didnt do the greatest job pluggin it up, and i ALSo have a leak on my downpipe where there is a hole for a EGT probe.

Ah... There's another variable. As for how much HP it cost you, I haven't a clue.

I had the Courtesy, but 2.5 inch pipes are no good on a NA sr20, trust me plus it was just plain ****in loud.

Yeah, I've heard the Courtesy Exhaust before. It's quite loud. I wouldn't say 2.5" isn't good for a N/A SR20. It's probably not optimum, but the difference is very little compared to a 2.25" (unless someone with a dyno-chart proves me otherwise.) As an alternative to selling that exhaust, you could have gotten a Thrush glasspack put in place of that dinky resonator that's on it. But then, Ben wouldn't be happy right now. =)

Cam timing is right on. When i first did the cams car wouldnt start, went back in and check and it was off by 2 rollers, i fixed that. car runs fine.

Okay... now here's something. It was off by two rollers. Do you know if it was 2 rollers off the exhaust cam sprocket, 2 rollers off the intake cam sprocket, or one roller off each sprocket? It could still be off even now, just not enough for the car to run bad, but enough for the car to lose power.

As you can tell, I'm really bored right now, and I totally dig playing Mr. Troubleshooter, even though I majorly suck at it.

--Andrew Phan
1998 200SX SE-R
1993 NX2000

Storm88000 · May 7, 2001

Originally posted by RollcageSR20:
Okay... now here's something. It was off by two rollers. Do you know if it was 2 rollers off the exhaust cam sprocket, 2 rollers off the intake cam sprocket, or one roller off each sprocket? It could still be off even now, just not enough for the car to run bad, but enough for the car to lose power.

It was off two rollers on the front side of the engine. I'm pretty sure thats the intake side? He knew it was off when he first installed them, tried to crank the car over and it wouldn't start as expected. So then we took everything off and Ryan re-adjusted and verified it was installed correctly.

I'm 90 percent sure his cams are in there properly because I have the same mods and we run neck in neck. He has the PR CAI, AEBS header, S4 cams, I have the HS CAI, HS header, and S4 cams. We're like dead even. We ran almost identical 1/4 track times. I ran a 15.1 he ran a 15.2. I know my cams are installed correctly cause cam-God Ray Kawski installed mine!

------------------
Jordan White (Stormy)
'98 SE(R) w/ HS CAI, HS G3 Header, JWT s4 Cams, UR Pulleys, KYB AGX's, Eibach Sportlines, Courtesy STB's, ES Mounts & shifter bushing, PWST X-Drilled Rotors w/ Axxis MM Pads, 17" Borbet Type S's w/ 205/40 Kumhos, Nis-Knacks goodies

RPWSER · May 8, 2001

Originally posted by RollcageSR20:
Okay... now here's something. It was off by two rollers. Do you know if it was 2 rollers off the exhaust cam sprocket, 2 rollers off the intake cam sprocket, or one roller off each sprocket? It could still be off even now, just not enough for the car to run bad, but enough for the car to lose power.

It was off by 2 on the exhaust side, and like i said i took care of it

As you can tell, I'm really bored right now, and I totally dig playing Mr. Troubleshooter, even though I majorly suck at it.

Click to expand...

Its ok Andrew, we know yer just tryin to help.

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Ryan Walsh, 1997 200sx SE-R w/ ES mounts, JWT s4's, AEBS 4-1, PR CAI, Sportlines/AGX's, Bridgestone re730's, Matrix FSTB, Stillen GTR grill

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