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I need me SE-R
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Discussion Starter #1
Okay. I'm not asking this cuz I'm going to go out and build my SE-R to race in the All-Motor competitions. I just don't wanna keep going off topic in MikeK's threads.

So, I was wondering if someone could explain all that is needed to know to get to the high levels that Honda engineers are at. And the GTiR n/a motors are. 300hp.

Okay, I get HUGE cams, crazy CR's, no replacement for displacement, ITB's, stand alone computers, side exit headers, larger injectors, race gas. And being extremely unstreetable, lasting maybe 5 runs and so on. I'd like to know just about everything there is to know. Even if you just mention the parts. I figured this will give me something to research when I am bored. Everyday :D

Again, just incredibly curious and trying to gain some knowledge on this. I want the experts on this one. And don't say Im stupid for wanting to attempt this, because I don't plan on it. Just learning.

Jason
 

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SR20VE or a T28? I dunno!
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$$$ and R&D
 

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54C PWNS ME
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1,840 Posts
Money, and Smarts. If i were a millionare and smart i would say screw almost every off the shelf part and have everything custom made, but thats a pipe dream. GTIRs are a different block and the head is a lot better flowing iirc. 300 HP is a pipe dream on a 53J block imo. Not unless its on methanol or some crazy ****. if you want 300 HP, go T28 or with a T3 type turbo. the thing with making this much HP NA is that that is usually PEAK,and with that you usually have no torque. so you make up for that with gearing in a full race car and thats why the Circut cars are always having the piss revved out of them because thier powerband is only up top. this has been discussed so many times its not even funny.
 

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Premium Member
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5,202 Posts
mYseRgOesvrOOm said:
Okay. I'm not asking this cuz I'm going to go out and build my SE-R to race in the All-Motor competitions. I just don't wanna keep going off topic in MikeK's threads.

So, I was wondering if someone could explain all that is needed to know to get to the high levels that Honda engineers are at. And the GTiR n/a motors are. 300hp.

Okay, I get HUGE cams, crazy CR's, no replacement for displacement, ITB's, stand alone computers, side exit headers, larger injectors, race gas. And being extremely unstreetable, lasting maybe 5 runs and so on. I'd like to know just about everything there is to know. Even if you just mention the parts. I figured this will give me something to research when I am bored. Everyday :D

Again, just incredibly curious and trying to gain some knowledge on this. I want the experts on this one. And don't say Im stupid for wanting to attempt this, because I don't plan on it. Just learning.

Jason
See my post under the last thread.

Mike
 

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I need me SE-R
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1,930 Posts
Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
JimmyNX2000 said:
Money, and Smarts. If i were a millionare and smart i would say screw almost every off the shelf part and have everything custom made, but thats a pipe dream. GTIRs are a different block and the head is a lot better flowing iirc. 300 HP is a pipe dream on a 53J block imo. Not unless its on methanol or some crazy ****. if you want 300 HP, go T28 or with a T3 type turbo. the thing with making this much HP NA is that that is usually PEAK,and with that you usually have no torque. so you make up for that with gearing in a full race car and thats why the Circut cars are always having the piss revved out of them because thier powerband is only up top. this has been discussed so many times its not even funny.

yeah, its been discussed. ive been in almost all of those discussions. i always tried helping to get to the bottom of it. not for the other people, but for me. but the same thing happens in every thread. but people like you always end up just giving generalized answer's and/or saying buy a t25/t28. no offense, just really getting tired of this forum starting interesting threads and end up losing the whole point.

torque is not an issue, being revved is not an issue. thats all about being a race car.

i want the deep down answers. i know everything of what you just said and its getting old. i swear this forums more about just saying stuff than getting deep down technical. which is what i want. no offense or anything, but im tired of threads not getting to the point.

the point is what else besides what i have mentioned off-topic remarks such as money and turbo.

and Mike, you said deck plates. can you explain what these are/are used for?

and JWT can program the motor to go to 8600. what could you do with a stand alone? and would going higher be beneficial. i see your new cams peak at like 7800? so w/ more tuning and larger cams...it would peak higher right??
 

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Premium Member
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mYseRgOesvrOOm said:
yeah, its been discussed. ive been in almost all of those discussions. i always tried helping to get to the bottom of it. not for the other people, but for me. but the same thing happens in every thread. but people like you always end up just giving generalized answer's and/or saying buy a t25/t28. no offense, just really getting tired of this forum starting interesting threads and end up losing the whole point.

torque is not an issue, being revved is not an issue. thats all about being a race car.

i want the deep down answers. i know everything of what you just said and its getting old. i swear this forums more about just saying stuff than getting deep down technical. which is what i want. no offense or anything, but im tired of threads not getting to the point.

the point is what else besides what i have mentioned off-topic remarks such as money and turbo.

and Mike, you said deck plates. can you explain what these are/are used for?

and JWT can program the motor to go to 8600. what could you do with a stand alone? and would going higher be beneficial. i see your new cams peak at like 7800? so w/ more tuning and larger cams...it would peak higher right??
The deck plate allows a longer rod so even with a 95mm stroke the rod ratio stays a better than stock 1.72:1 for better cylinder filling at high rpm and less mechniical load on the enignes internals as well as reduced piston speed.

A 240SX ECU needs to be used so the engine can rev to 10,000 rpm and the head needs to be rewelded and the crap ported out of it ala chris rado's project norad.

I would also use a dry sump oiling system.

Its very doable but it would be treading on new grounds and its not going to happen without money.

Mike
 

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54C PWNS ME
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1,840 Posts
like I said, you would need to rev the piss out of it to make power with those cams. Mike, with what you just said, the deck plate would act as a sort of spacer imbetween the block and head correct? so you would run more stroke obviously, and with that you would also gain a little bit more torque and a better power band?
 

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oh so LAZY
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9,747 Posts
mYseRgOesvrOOm said:
the same thing happens in every thread. but people like you always end up just giving generalized answer's and/or saying buy a t25/t28. no offense, just really getting tired of this forum starting interesting threads and end up losing the whole point.

i swear this forums more about just saying stuff than getting deep down technical. which is what i want. no offense or anything, but im tired of threads not getting to the point.
i could not agree more. now keep going guys, i love these threads, i love learning this stuff.

so the sr ecu just cant handle 10k rpms? because its 8 bit? not fast enough? or another reason?
 

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Registered
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choaderboy2 said:
A 240SX ECU needs to be used so the engine can rev to 10,000 rpm and the head needs to be rewelded and the crap ported out of it ala chris rado's project norad.


Mike
What's different about the 240SX ECU that allows that kind of engine speed? Why can't this be done with a JWT SR20DE ECU?
 

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I need me SE-R
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1,930 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
SR20 in the 200 said:
i could not agree more. now keep going guys, i love these threads, i love learning this stuff.
:D:D Someone understands me :D:D

JimmyNX2000 said:
Mike, with what you just said, the deck plate would act as a sort of spacer imbetween the block and head correct? so you would run more stroke obviously, and with that you would also gain a little bit more torque and a better power band?
Same question :D
 

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I need me SE-R
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1,930 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
and just to do it, Thank you Mike K. for taking your time with me. I'll make sure to point every thread about this same question right here. And the numerous other threads I know of :D.

PS. Where did you go to school and what for? Automotive Engineering? The more you talk the more I wanna learn.
 

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SR20VE or a T28? I dunno!
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mYseRgOesvrOOm said:
and just to do it, Thank you Mike K. for taking your time with me. I'll make sure to point every thread about this same question right here. And the numerous other threads I know of :D.

PS. Where did you go to school and what for? Automotive Engineering? The more you talk the more I wanna learn.
He probably picks Dave Coleman's head just enough to sound knowledgeable ;)

mYseRgOesvrOOm: you might wanna check out the "Suck Squish Bang Blow" articles by our very own Mike K. in Sport Compact Car - although I'm not sure where these articles would be online....
 

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Premium Member
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5,202 Posts
mYseRgOesvrOOm said:
and just to do it, Thank you Mike K. for taking your time with me. I'll make sure to point every thread about this same question right here. And the numerous other threads I know of :D.

PS. Where did you go to school and what for? Automotive Engineering? The more you talk the more I wanna learn.
I went to Cal State Long Beach.

Mike
 

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Bitter Old Man
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2,623 Posts
It's about stroke-to-rod-length ratio and getting a long enough rod
Damn, talk about tangents! From hi-perf motor stuff to porn stuff.

Listen up, guys: There are a LOT of good books out there that explain all this stuff. So what if they're generalized, it applies to all engines. Only the details differ. Any decent small-block Chevy book will explain stroke-to-rod-length ratio.

Here's a good one I read recently:
Sportbike Performance Handbook So what if it focuses on motorcycles? They use four-stroke internal combustion engines that try to get mad horsepower from small capacity.

Or, Have a bottle of aspirin handy for this one but it's the best in its field.

How about Smokey Yunick, I haven't read it but it should be good.

Another one I haven't read but should be worthwhile.
 

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Professor Dingbat
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5,543 Posts
Hone out the valve guides. Sure it will burn oil, but it will rev more freely.
 

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Yeah I get tired of everyone saying, "It's not worth it, get a turbo", If I wanted a turbo and had questions about a turbo, wouldn't I be posting in the TURBO forum?
 
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