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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
well, its finally happened....after driving my 92 classic for two years, and saving for almost as long, i finally have enough money to go turbo
i've done my homework and looked at this from every angle - importing an sr20det, piecing a kit together myself, even dropping an sr20det in a 240sx. but, after LOTS of reading and research, i think i want to go with the f-max stage 2 in my classic. at their website, they have a list of options - the ball bearing upgrade, water injection, bigger injectors, hks wastegate, and thermocoating. i've been reading this board for about a year now (i just registered) and have read a few posts about these upgrades, like the water injection and using a tial wastegate over the deltagate. i was wondering--on an otherwise stock engine, what options would you guys recommend? also, what would should i do to my car at the same time that doesn't come in the kit, like gauges, a clutch (clutchmasters stage 3?), turbo timer, boost controller, and the ignition timing? any help would be greatly appreciated, i want to do this turbo thing right, thanks ALOT
(sorry for the length!!!)
 

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Welcome aboad sr20de92. I too look around on the board a long time before I decided to join. I like to see what others have to say (hint my low posts). I think you should get a det, plain and simple. I'm not going to get into details because i'm sleepy and i'm sure that you know alot about the differences already.
Just to let you know you can get a completly swaped det for about $4000 - $5000 (this is not for all, it's only what I charge). That includes the motor, labor for the mechanic, and all the miscilanious parts you'll need. Carry it to the track and you can pull low 13's to mid 12's (on street tires).

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paradiseracing.homestead.com/home.html
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sr20 B12:
Welcome aboad sr20de92. I too look around on the board a long time before I decided to join. I like to see what others have to say (hint my low posts). I think you should get a det, plain and simple. I'm not going to get into details because i'm sleepy and i'm sure that you know alot about the differences already.
Just to let you know you can get a completly swaped det for about $4000 - $5000 (this is not for all, it's only what I charge). That includes the motor, labor for the mechanic, and all the miscilanious parts you'll need. Carry it to the track and you can pull low 13's to mid 12's (on street tires).

</font>

Stop that...Don't mislead this guy into thinking something that is not!

A stock turbo/fuel/MAF DET is NOT going to run like a DE with a F-Max kit on it.

I don't care what you say or what you have done. You keep saying that a stock DET swap runs mid 12's. The injectors, MAF, fuel pump, turbo, IC and everything else is NOT able to support over 250hp. Period!!

The MAF tops out at about 8psi

370's top out at about 12psi

The fuel pump is done at 250hp

The t25 is done with a capital D at 270hp

If you push it beyond that you are asking for trouble. You *WILL* end up blowing your car up if it is pushed to those levels consistently.

You know how we got a stock DET to run 12.8 on slicks? The kid didn't care, and removed the wastegate line, put in 116 gas, and launched the car like he hated it. The rest of his runs in the same scenario were low 13's. The car would not pull more than 108mph in the 1320.

By comparison the F-Max on a DE will pull down 120mph in the quarter and do it safely. Mike Mager went 117mph WITH the cat on the car and he has the small T3/T4 turbo!!!

With a DET you are getting a used motor that you have no idea the condition of. Do you know how many DET's have spun bearings on the main list? Lots...more than should.

If his DE is healty and he wan't big power the most cost effetive thing for him to do is just turbo his DE.

If he wants to rebuild a DET AND put an F-Max kit on the car that would be even better, but to tell him your going to swap in a stock DET and the car will pull 12's on street tires is not a good representative of the real world.


[This message has been edited by Jay Hass (edited 03-05-2001).]
 

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And here we go again. I really don't care what you say about my claims of a 12 second det on street tires (@114+mph). Don't belive a simple se-r kid then ask some of the big boys like Jamie, Andreas or even Ben Ma. They all saw it. We did the engine January last year He never had a problem with it (and it's kept at 15psi daily driven). I'm not going to get into that anymore you all will have to talk to the owner to get more info, cause it's not my car.

If you have the 444cc injectors, the GTi-R nismo fuel pump, and the T28 turbo, you can generate well over 300hp's, pending on if you have a good engine or not. As a matter of fact I have my father's GTi-R set to 18psi of boost with no problem.

It also depends on how you drive your car. I have seen some video's of you car (very nice by the way) and you have a different move off style than I would use. There's nothing wrong with it, it's just how you drive. I have seen the 12 second bluebird se-r (I live in NYC) and the guy does treat that car like crap, but it runs! The best I have seen that car run was a very low 13 on those slicks. The car was stripped down to only the drivers seat!

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18psi and counting
paradiseracing.homestead.com/home.html

[This message has been edited by Sr20 B12 (edited 03-05-2001).]
 

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sr20 B12:
And here we go again. I really don't care what you say about my claims of a 12 second det on street tires (@114+mph)...We did the engine January last year He never had a problem with it (and it's kept at 15psi daily driven).</font>
Okay lets clarify...I can probably run a high 11's on a T28 and 370's. But it's not safe and it's not going to last. I don't necessarily doubt you ran that time but I bet money the car was at about 13.5:1 A/F ratio and the turbine was so constipated that there was about 50psi of back pressure in the manifold. These are engineering facts that can't be gotten around. That's not healthy.

I don't know if you are on the list but this has been beaten to death by knowledgable people...one who designs the danm turbos we use!

When I say safe, I'm talking Ryan B's over 100,000 mile motor that *will not* blow up after being boosted to high hell since 60,000 miles and nitrous'd before that.

Three or four runs down the strip may not blow the car up...but then there is that one time...boom.

A T28 will support about 250whp safely. Shaggy managed 280whp and about two months later we got an email that his turbo self destructed and fed the motor shrapnel. Bye bye DET, bye bye everything.

It's just like the guys with the JWT 50shot who put the .46 jet in (75hp) and say "hey my EGT is fine, all is well" until that one time the burn a valve because the car is running on the edge.

If you want to roll the dice and run the car to those unhealthy levels so be it. The car will not last and it's not designed to be run at those levels. It's ghetto to run it that way.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">If you have the 444cc injectors, the GTi-R nismo fuel pump, and the T28 turbo, you can generate well over 300hp's, pending on if you have a good engine or not. As a matter of fact I have my father's GTi-R set to 18psi of boost with no problem.</font>
I'll give you this, 444cc injectors, and a non stock fuel pump will go a long way to help the car live at those levels but it's still overwhelmed to put down a 114mph run.

On a 2700lb race weight car including driver (Pretty light) it takes over 320whp to go 114mph. That's not chump change for that kind of fuel system, and I fine it almost impossible to do with a T28 unless you got it hogged out beyond belief, but then it's heating the air so much the car will be very unstable.

What kind of MAF are you using? The stock DE MAF will in no freakin way even try to support anything over 240ish hp. You must be tuning with fuel pressure after that.

I'm not trying to bust your stones, but there are a LOT of people who are engineers by trade, and design the very stuff we use that have gone over this time and again. Not to mention there are lots of people who poo poo'd what they said and eventually blown their motors. It's not uncommon.

I don't like rolling the dice when running my car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
hey guys, thanks alot for your opinions on the topic, but i feel bad....i really didn't intend to start an argument, cause i know that the f-max vs. det argument has been beaten to death already. but i appreciate the info. anyway, i think i'm still going to go with the f-max stage 2, for a few reasons, mainly that i don't want to mess around with a used engine that i don't know the history of. at least with my engine, i know how its been treated for the past 2 years. my engine is pretty much stock, its in good shape with only 80k (its a 92) and i plan to do a compression and leak down test before i buy anything. but other than that, what options from f-max do you guys think are worthwhile? also, what other upgrades should i do at the same time? i'm not looking for huge power at first, i just want the car to run safely and well. thanks.
 

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I , personally, would get the Tial 35mm Wastegate upgrade, T3/T04E Non Ball Bearing (Stage III .82AR, 50 trim .50AR), Greddy Type "R" BOV, Ceramic Coatings, 4 bar fuel & H2O Injection Program, Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator, Greddy Oil Pressure Guage, Greddy Boost Guage, Greddy EGT Guage, Greddy Fuel Pressure Guage,3" Cat Back Exhuast, ACT 6 Puck w/ ACT HD P/PL, Cryo Treated Tranny, and if you want; Water Injection.

http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1497569&a=11327630



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Louis Anaya 1992 Sentra SE-R
13.6 @ 111 mph(Street Tires),12.7 @ 112 mph(Slicks), Bluebird SR20DET w/ GTiR Pistons,T3/T04E,Deltagate Wastegate (9 PSI) FMAX Manifold, RevHard FMIC, JWT S3 Cams, JWT Ported & Polished Head, 1996 200SX SE-R Welded & Cyro Treated Tranny, ACT Xtreme P/PL & 6 Puck Disc, Cobra MAF, JWT ECU w/ 4 Bar Fuel Program, MSD 50lb/hr Injectors, JWT Fuel Rail, 300ZXTT Fuel Pump, AeroMotive Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator, Greddy Type "R" BOV, Greddy Profec B, Greddy Boost & EGT Guages, UR 4 Pulley Kit, Powerslot Rotors, Axxis MM Brake Pads, ES Motor Mounts, Topspeed Short Shifter, Momo Cobra Shift Knob, KYB AGX Struts, GC Coilovers (350F/600R)& 17x7 White Tenzo Shu-4's w/ Kuhmo 205/40/ZR17 Tires
 

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well, if you are not looking for huge power, just go for the stage I at first, and then upgrade when you get board with it. I believe a well tuned stage I will get you 250-275 whp?

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98 se-r w/ p/r cai,jwt s3 cams, stillen header, courtesy exhaust, ur pullies, JUN flywheel, ACT clutch, NOS nitrous kit, eibach springs, kyb struts, st sways, cusco camber plates, f/r strut braces,stillen lower control arm brace, lotsa bushings, and a bunch of other crap
 
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Hey guys I was reading on what you guys are taking about.Am still learning about Turbo's, and DET's. I was lucking when i got my BB DET. I didnt have to change out the bearings out of my motor. When me and my coz had the motor out we change everything on the motor. The only thing we didnt change was the oil pump. When we drain the oil from the motor it was super clean. So we both decide not to change out the bearings. When we got the car started whe let the motor run for at least an hour to make sure eveything was ok. Also I Got the whole from Clip from the BB. When I put the motor in, the motor had only 35,000 miles on it. So at least I know some history on the motor. And the reson i did the swap it becasue I was pushing over 120,000 miles.(didnt trust the motor) Well guys I just thought you guy wanted to know.
ok my questions

1. how much psi can i run after the upgrade injectors,MAF,ECU? am boosting 10 psi with stock injectors,maf

2. What do you guys think about the griffen intercooler from Road race?


Richie Soliven Representing Split Second Racing in Va beach,VA
SR20DET Power, HKS EVC EZ( boosting at 10 psi), HKS TURBO TIMER, JWT ECU , Greddy catback exhaust, 3 in ATR Race Cat(That needs do be hollowed out), 3 in downpipe,300zxTT fuel pump HKS plugs,Magnecor wires, SSR rims 18x7.5,relocated battary to the trunk, AGX'S struts and Ground Controls, Stillen kit
 
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