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Professor Dingbat
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
this was originally posted in off topic, but i thought i'd post it here
http://www.renaultf1.com/en/public/flash/videos/video.php?name=/en/video/17495.html#

what's with the fuel injectors? it looks like they are positioned BEFORE the throttle plates. It seems that this has the utmost in short intake manifold runners-a couple inches max and the plenum is the area above the throttle plates, in the scoop behind the driver's head.

What do you guys think it would take to make that kind of power?

According to Renault's site it's a 72° 3.0L V10
 

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Bitter Old Man
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Typical sportbike fuel injection uses two sets injectors, one before the throttle plate used for power and one after the throttle plate for low speed work. Since an F1 engine doesn't need much streetability, they would only need the one showerhead.

More than 2,500 liters of air per minute get sucked through each intake trumpet assuming 17k rpm. That means large diameter and short length to fit in allotted space. Pretty much HAVE to have the injector outside the throat.

What do you guys think it would take to make that kind of power?
Eh? What power? Some context, please.
 

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By F1 standards Renault doesn't make 'awesome' power. Ferrari and BMW do, with the BMW making the most (19,200 rpm redline, 900-950BHP +).
Now compared to my **** boxes, they are on another level.
A large turbo, 10,000 rpms+, maybe a neumatic valvetrain, obviously dry sump, bombproof bottom end, 2.4 liters, that should do it.

When IS someone going to make a decent intake manifold for the SR? Edelbrock?Hotshot?
I'd be better off perfecting TIG welding and making my own. I see some prototypes this, sheet metal that, but no concrete product.
 

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Bitter Old Man
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I see some prototypes this, sheet metal that, but no concrete product.
Because there's no concrete market. When Nissan sells a powerful engine in the numbers that Chevrolet has done with the Mouse motor, THEN you'll see people falling over themselves to rush products to market for it.
 

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Professor Dingbat
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Discussion Starter #5
Eh? What power? Some context, please.
well look at it, it's making like 2000 horsepower N/A out of 3 litres. Assuming it's revving 3x what our cars rev, thats still only about 1000 horsepower with the same volumetric efficiency. I'm sure to keep the rods and valvetrain from flying apart, some exotic techniques are used, but i wonder what they are.

Look at the collector for each header, their size must be some sort of optical illusion, because they sure dont look like they flow 1000HP each
 

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Captain Slow
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FastNX said:
well look at it, it's making like 2000 horsepower N/A out of 3 litres. Assuming it's revving 3x what our cars rev, thats still only about 1000 horsepower with the same volumetric efficiency.
F1 engines don't make that much power. You do have to realize though that you will never be able to come even close to being that efficient with a SR20. There are simple (by simple I mean absolutely elementary) design aspects of the SR that will prevent it from ever doing anything that looks like it. This goes all the way down to the fact that the inline 4 layout is naturally vibration prone.

I can understand where you're coming from though. Right now, a few engineering buddies of mine are seriously considering doing up preliminary plans for a relatively cost-effective dry sump system for the GA16DE. No, there's absolutely no point in doing it. Yes, (if this thing ever gets built) it's going to cause a number of complications that will have to be sorted out later. And no, the advantages are probably not going to be worth it. But if you're taking part in the relentless search for extreme efficiency on an extreme budget, sometimes these crazy ideas are a necessity.
 

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the company my dad works for is trying to develop lighter valves with bmw for their f1 engines so they can rev higher and not get valve float :)
 

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sleeper
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F1 motors are an extreme in engineering. They use to rev to 20k and make some insane amount of power. I think I remember hearing that the stresses are so high that the cylinder walls are actually distorting the whole time. This also causes them to burn a slight amount of oil the entire time.

I can't remember, but either this year or next, the motors have to last more than 500km or something so they all lowered the rev limits and power.
 

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my bad its ferrari... not bmw
 

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Professor Dingbat
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Discussion Starter #11
I can't remember, but either this year or next, the motors have to last more than 500km or something so they all lowered the rev limits and power.
According to that site, the engines have to last an entire race weekend, including qualifying runs
 

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Slartibartfast said:
Because there's no concrete market. When Nissan sells a powerful engine in the numbers that Chevrolet has done with the Mouse motor, THEN you'll see people falling over themselves to rush products to market for it.
It's not a matter of how concrete the market is, how about just offering it period. 'Big Boost' did it the most cost effective way. Use OEM injector bosses, attach short runners, and a common plenum. Make provisions for FPR vacuum line, Idle air control and TB. Problem with his product was marketing, or a lack thereof. He should have sent one to Kojima, Miko, JWT. The gains would have been posted from at least two reputable sources, now you've established credibility. The cost of goods is minimal (sheet aluminum, templates and JDM manifolds), you maintain OEM injector angle and port alignment (details that concern me), and you have a simple, effective bolt on. Put the TB on the other end, sell it to the Silvia crowd.
 

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I saw a documentary on a BMW F1 engine build-up once. It was crazy - they shaved enough metal out of the thing to reduce the total weight of the engine by 50%. Even the pistons were extreme to look at - huge valve reliefs the full size of each valve head recessed into the top of the piston, nearly as deep as the full lift of the valves. The piston skirt did not exist for all normal observers and just the minimum amount of material around the wrist pins. They must run some horrendous compressions.
 

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Also remember , the F1 engines dont use valve springs .. They have a Pneumatic valve system , only way to close the valves at 17+K RPM ... Keeping that kind of HP and RPM together takes some serious Technology and $$
 

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meh
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scmser said:
When IS someone going to make a decent intake manifold for the SR? Edelbrock?Hotshot?
I'd be better off perfecting TIG welding and making my own. I see some prototypes this, sheet metal that, but no concrete product.

i have some designs for an intake manifold for my car....shouldnt be to much longer before i fab one up for testing.

and nice vidz too :D
 
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