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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok today I tested the Protoype for the new Hotshot Gen 6 header. This header kicks serious ass, it is going to be by far the most powerful header avalible with the broadest powerband. Don't ask me for details on it nor when it is going to be for sale. Dont call Hotshot and bother them about it yet either. This was just the first bit of testing for power. It still has to be race tested to amke sure it is crack resistant, etc and details won't be released until a patent is applyed for.

The test motor was a bone stock high port DE long block with S4 cams, UD pulleys, HS CAI and JWT ECU. The engine was baselined at 156 WHP with a Gen 5 header. Then the Proto Gen 6 was installed, BTW, its a 4-1 with some twists for a broader powerband. The Gen 6 made 162.5 hp with a gain of 8 hp at 5500 rpm and 10 hp at 7600 rpm. The gain was at least 5 hp from about 4400 rpm on up. Interestingly the new header made 4 more hp at a low 2000 rpm. In fact the header made more power from idle all the way to the fuel cut. That broad fat hp over the Gen 5 which is no slouch either in the power producing department.

Next the S4's were replaced with JWT's new S5 cams which have 272 degrees duration and and whooping .507 lift on stock valve springs! We experimented with cam timing and found best powerband at intake 7 degrees advanced and exhaust 7 degrees retarded. The idle was pretty rumpy so the ECU was reprogramed with JWT's C3 idle program which smooth things out to where it would be reasonably streetable.

With the cams lobe centers tightened, the S5's lost 2-3 hp from idle to 4600 rpm making considerably more power than the S4's above 6000 rpm. The engine rocked out 168.3 whp when we were done adjusting cam timing. I was pretty impressed with the potential of a fairly inexpensive all bolt on stock motor here. Not needing valve springs is a big cost savers. Now the S5 does not have as radical ramps as the C series cams so they don't have the area under the curve. Expect C cams to make more power still.

168 is nothing to sneeze at. Considering that a Type R makes 166-168 whp with less torque. The S5's are now avalible for sale. For best results you must have a very low restriction exhaust system and you must get the adjustable timing gears. You don't have to get the idle program but its nice. These developments are exciting. This means that with the new header and C series cams, you can probably be in the 170's with a stock bottom end. In the next few weeks I'll be testing a short runner manifold on a bolt on motor. Perhaps with C3's, some tuning and a manifold, 180 whp will be posible bolt on style!

Mike
 

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Will we need to take our cars to a dyno to figure out the right cam timing settings with the S5's?
 

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I need me SE-R
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So, for the ECU program...what would you ask for? S5 Program, s3-s4 program with idle solution or what? Good going tho. Glad to see these cams are out :D

Based on your testing, would you say the S5 cams at a good 15-20hp? Or what? Talk about a bang for buck award.
 

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Sounds like you and the guys at HotShot and Jim Wolf have been really busy. Do you think that's why their products cost more than others? ;)

Keep up the great work Mike!
 

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merely a flesh wound
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SE-R-2-Go said:
How would these S5's respond to boost?
Yeah - what he said. S5 + T28 + Cam Gears + 3" exhaust = :) :) :eek:?

C
 

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Well you can expect your powerband to be moved up considerably if you take into account the 272/12.8mm lift...which is amazing on stock valve springs - however you must take into account "how did they get it to not put that much seat pressure down" Well one of two ways..LSA which is Lobe Separation Angle and ramp narrowing which will greatly reduce the lope of the cam under max lift/duration...this isnt really what you want per se in a turbo engine..

To answer your question..If you want more midrange/topend power go with this camshaft..It will take a slight amount away from your low end but not enough to make it unbearable you will just slightly lose bottom RPM range response..maybe to around 3800rpm.

Since you have cam gears you can dial the cam in a bit more and maybe turn that 3800rpm number down to 3500ish but like i said, your loss will mainly be in bottom end grunt due to the way those cams are built.

a T28 likes staggered camshafts like 256/264 with meidum to low lift. Tomei poncams are awesome on a T28 RWD DET...It'd be the same thing with a bit more power (assumed 10% dt loss for RWD) on a FWD.
 

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OK, Gen 6 with S3's or S4's are not a go?

Funny thing is if someone steals this design and Mike decides to top the Gen 6 then the Gen 7 will be even more powerful. DAYUM! j/k
 

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www.FAIRTAX.org
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Great news Mike! Now all that work you guys are doing won't be lost to companies like OBX. Finally someone listened to me about getting a patent. :)


choaderboy2 said:
etc and details won't be released until a patent is applyed for.
 

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My Ass, your face
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I'm just glad Hotshot decided to go through with this and still support our community... they sure didn't have to.

Somewhere in my future, after suspension upgrade of course, I see a Gen6 header and a 2.25 exhaust on my completely stock Classic. Sorry, cams aren't going to be a consideration. Shorter intake runner sounds interesting, too.

The patent process can take a while, so don't expect these too soon. I'm excited, gives me time to save up for a great suspension, thanks to Mike's garage and Pete for pointing me in that direction.

Peace Out,
Mark
 

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I'm all down for this header if I make my car a all motor car. But I hope they make this header crack proof this time. I"m not trying to buy a defective product.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
SE-R-2-Go said:
Will we need to take our cars to a dyno to figure out the right cam timing settings with the S5's?
You really should do that with any cams. Most cams that are longer in duration usualy benifit from closing in the lobe centers it the exhaust is not to restrictive. Typicaly this gives you more midrange without losing any top end. The idle will get worse.

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
mYseRgOesvrOOm said:
So, for the ECU program...what would you ask for? S5 Program, s3-s4 program with idle solution or what? Good going tho. Glad to see these cams are out :D

Based on your testing, would you say the S5 cams at a good 15-20hp? Or what? Talk about a bang for buck award.
Yes the S4 idle program will work. The S4 program is perfect for igntion and fuel mapping as well. We could not improve on it.

Yeah I'd say the S5's are worth at least 20 hp over the stock cams.
Reember though, they are best used with some timing gears. You gotta advance the intake and retard the exhaust to keep good midrange. You have to have a good flowing exhaust. Do this and you won't be dispointed.

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
SE-R-2-Go said:
How would these S5's respond to boost?
THey probably have too much duration for all but a serious full race turbo system with low backpressure.

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
daniel_pg said:
Well you can expect your powerband to be moved up considerably if you take into account the 272/12.8mm lift...which is amazing on stock valve springs - however you must take into account "how did they get it to not put that much seat pressure down" Well one of two ways..LSA which is Lobe Separation Angle and ramp narrowing which will greatly reduce the lope of the cam under max lift/duration...this isnt really what you want per se in a turbo engine..

QUOTE]

No on a turbo motor, you want to increse the lobe seperation angle to decrease the chance of reversion on overlap. Turbo motors have a lot more backpressure than NA motors and hence don't like lots of overlap unless you are in crossover which is more boost pressure than back pressure which only occurs in a street turbo at lower rpm/boost levels or in properly sized race or very edgy street turbo. If you increase the lobe speration angle, retard the intake slightly and advance the exhaust, you get quicker spool and the engine is usualy more happy, especialy with smaller turbos and log manifolds.

JWT gets these phenominal numbers not due to lobe speration and ramp narrowing but though careful analyisis of valve train harmonics. They do subtile manipulation of the cams ramps to intitiate valve motion that is less likely to harmonicaly excite the spring and put it into surge.

As far as what sort of cam a small turbo motor like a stock DET will like, my personal opinion is that the ultimate small turbo cam is the C1. We run that on the disco potato, short duration and high lift. Get the volyume in without such reversion issues.

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Pretty White said:
OK, Gen 6 with S3's or S4's are not a go?

Funny thing is if someone steals this design and Mike decides to top the Gen 6 then the Gen 7 will be even more powerful. DAYUM! j/k
No read my post, it works awsome on S4's and I presume it would so with S3's as well.

Mike
 
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