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Track Whore
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just came from our dyno day and I have some good news.

The C3s seem to work on a low port just as good as a high port provided you dyno tune the car very well.

First I want to thank Rob, Mike and my brother for all their help.

We put the car on the dyno and tried to retard the timing but that did not do much. Playing with the ignition timing did not yield good results at all. So we left it at 25 degrees base timing since I am running the JWT ECU with the idle stability program.

Next we advanced the exhaust cam about 2 degrees and put the car back on the dyno. On the third run the car posted 162.8 hp and 123.5 lbft. Keep in mind that I am running 1/8 inch toe out that is costing me about 3 hp. Add that number and my hp goes up to around 165-166 hp. This is the same hp number that Rob's high port got in the recent SCC article.

Next we advanced the intake cam about 2 degrees but sadly we did not have time to test it properly. We ran out of time.

Basically I came away with the impression that these cams work on a low port but you must do a lot of dyno tuning. These are NOT plug and play cams.

You will still lose low end power over the S3s. But you will gain over stock 91 cams at the low end. But I feel that with more dyno tuning it is possible to recover some of the losses.

BTW, Ron's car (Jay's old car) put 400hp to the wheels with race gas. Chris Allen's car put 375hp on pump gas. Frank Orozco put 350hp while spitting oil from the turbine. All these are turbo monsters.

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Naji Dahi, aka Red Mist
Fast 1998 SE-R Last of the SE-Rs
Slow 1996 G20 (AGXs/G20t springs, K&N drop in filter)
 

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haha, naji you the man ! I knwe there we power in the C3s, thanks for takin g aleep of faith for the rest of us wiith the low port motors. Rob and Mike are the **** they can tune a john deere to run 9s I swear, since you have all the bolt ons, time to get a manifold and some compression huh? be the first to go over 180 WHP NA naji!


Lyn

PS, I see some spelling errors, will correct tomorow
 

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the cams seem to add a lot of hp, but whats goin on with the torque?? it seems like you are losing a lot of it...with no cams, and regular boltons, i did 131 lbft. does this mean that if i put cams on, i will gain another 10-15hp, but lose torque? cause thats not really what i want.

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Serban Gavrilescu
91 Black Metallic SE-R
146.5hp & 131.6lb-ft torque

Serban's SE-R Page
 

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newbie
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by nj1266:
I just came from our dyno day and I have some good news.

The C3s seem to work on a low port just as good as a high port provided you dyno tune the car very well.

First I want to thank Rob, Mike and my brother for all their help.

We put the car on the dyno and tried to retard the timing but that did not do much. Playing with the ignition timing did not yield good results at all. So we left it at 25 degrees base timing since I am running the JWT ECU with the idle stability program.

Next we advanced the exhaust cam about 2 degrees and put the car back on the dyno. On the third run the car posted 162.8 hp and 123.5 lbft. Keep in mind that I am running 1/8 inch toe out that is costing me about 3 hp. Add that number and my hp goes up to around 165-166 hp. This is the same hp number that Rob's high port got in the recent SCC article.

Next we advanced the intake cam about 2 degrees but sadly we did not have time to test it properly. We ran out of time.

Basically I came away with the impression that these cams work on a low port but you must do a lot of dyno tuning. These are NOT plug and play cams.

You will still lose low end power over the S3s. But you will gain over stock 91 cams at the low end. But I feel that with more dyno tuning it is possible to recover some of the losses.

BTW, Ron's car (Jay's old car) put 400hp to the wheels with race gas. Chris Allen's car put 375hp on pump gas. Frank Orozco put 350hp while spitting oil from the turbine. All these are turbo monsters.

</font>
Naji 2 questions.
1. Did you really mean 25degrees BTDC? DAMN!Did the car ping like a bell at that timing?
2. Since our cam gears are not like Honda cam gears I would assume everytime you did an adjustment it would take about 1 hour? That sounds like a real PITA to tune. To keep screwing down the valve cover etc. Phew, are C series cams really worht it?


[This message has been edited by Pretty White (edited 10-07-2001).]
 

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Track Whore
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Fast91SER:
the cams seem to add a lot of hp, but whats goin on with the torque?? it seems like you are losing a lot of it...with no cams, and regular boltons, i did 131 lbft. does this mean that if i put cams on, i will gain another 10-15hp, but lose torque? cause thats not really what i want.
</font>
The C3 cams are ROAD RACING CAMS. They lose at the low end to give you power at the top end. They also sacrifice some torque for hp. With my S3s I pulled 132 lbft torque. Now it is 123.5. In SCC testing they got a max of 132 lbft of torque with the C3. With 0 toe I can get my torque within shouting distance of SCC dyno charts.

If you want torque, then get the C1 cams. These are much better when it comes to torque. I think the C1 cams are the best street cam that JWT has today, if you are willing to change your sprins/retainers.

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Naji Dahi, aka Red Mist
Fast 1998 SE-R Last of the SE-Rs
Slow 1996 G20 (AGXs/G20t springs, K&N drop in filter)

[This message has been edited by nj1266 (edited 10-07-2001).]
 

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Track Whore
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Pretty White:
Naji 2 questions.
1. Did you really mean 25degrees BTDC? DAMN!Did the car ping like a bell at that timing?
</font>


No it does not ping at all. The timing is at 25 only at idle to make idle stable. That is a JWT program made clark. When you accelerate the timing retards.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">2. Since our cam gears are not like Honda cam gears I would assume everytime you did an adjustment it would take about 1 hour? That sounds like a real PITA to tune. To keep screwing down the valve cover etc. Phew, are C series cams really worht it?</font>
You do have to remove the valve cover. But after that it is very easy to adjust the gears since I have the Stillen ones. It took us about 15 min to remove the cover and adjust while the car was still on the dyno. If you have the JWT gears, then that will be a PITA.


[This message has been edited by Pretty White (edited 10-07-2001).]
[/QUOTE]



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Naji Dahi, aka Red Mist
Fast 1998 SE-R Last of the SE-Rs
Slow 1996 G20 (AGXs/G20t springs, K&N drop in filter)
 

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GUPAMF 4 Life
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1,240 Posts
Well, my suspicions were correct. I am way down on power. 152 whp and 122 tq. I lost power from my last dyno all the way to 5500 RPM's. FWIW, I dynoed 138 whp and 130 tq almost exactly a year ago. In April I ran a [email protected] I can't imagine from April to October, my compression on my motor could have taken a ****. We will see though considering I do have 134,000 miles. There will be a compression test this next weekend. I will post results then.


Terrin
92 SE-R
 

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Guanaco Tuner
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3,049 Posts
Well.. I got some numbers too last night.
I guess my butt dyno was horked. I got a nice increase all across the board from the S3's.

152.3hp and 135.2 torque.

I'm pretty happy with the car now
I think with a few tweaks I can get it up to 155. Not too bad for 237 thousand miles
Unfortunately Terrins car didn't do too well
I hope you get it dialed in Terrin! Nothing a Primera swap can't fix...


Luis Molina
93 Classic just about every bolt on you can think of .
 

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Thanks Luis! I'll keep you updated on what happens. I'm going to be doing a compression test and advancing the exhaust cam this weekend. It seems like everyone has had to advance the exhaust cam in order to make good power, even on the production run cams. Makes me wonder if the production run cams are indeed advanced 2.5 degrees. Because I'm making a little less power than Rob when he installed his C3 cams straight up. These are indeed not plug and play cams if my compression is ok.


Terrin
92 SE-R
 

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Guanaco Tuner
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> Impressive. Isn't that torque number a little higher than normal for full bolt-on cars? </font>
I don't know really? According to Mike K. and Rob Cadle, not much about my car is normal. Typical HP numbers for my level of mods is 144 and I had around that much before the cam install. Maybe I'm getting 10:1 compression with my 237 thousand miles worth of carbon deposits
.

Luis Molina
93 Classic
 
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