<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by PSSSHHHGOESMYSR20: When I said add more fuel I ment Get 720cc+ then Lean them out to where you are not running Rich nor are you running lean.</font>
That still doesn't make any sense. In fact it's just the opposite. For low rpm performance and streetability you want to run the smallest injector you can get away with.
The car has no idea if 1 part fuel to 12 parts air is coming from a 720cc or a 270cc unit. All it knows is the target A/F ratio has been hit.
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Im not bashing JWT Im just saying that You get more tunability with a stand alone ECU then you ever will with a JWT Set up.</font>
You also get more things to screw up. It's not easy to tune a motor with a stand alone you know. At Pruven Performance we spent countless hours on the dyno to take a car from 450whp to 511whp. A LOT of time. If the guy was paying for dyno time, the bill would have been outrageous but he owned the dyno.
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">As far as Tuning with the weather change Im sorry dude but Thats not correct I know guys making over 460 hp to the wheels with out ever having a problem with the retuning due to the weather. I did say I like to put gas in and go well guess what, you take a motor run it on the dyno and tune it with a stand alone, you wont ever have to touch it again, unless you add something different or want to try different settings. </font>
Dare I say you have not been around very many stand alone systems. I can *guarantee* you that the guys who made 460hp on the dyno with a barometric pressure of 31 are NOT making that same power at 29inches.
They use MAP sensors. MAP sensors can not detect the Mass of air. If the barometric pressure drops or rises due to weather or elevation changes you have to tweak your program.
My good friends (And some of the fastest in country) use Haltech stand alones and they make God awful power.(530 wheel hp street DSM) However they will be the first to tell you that the lap top rides along.
NHRA Racers using MOTEC systems bring multiple programs tailored to individual tracks and weather conditions with them.
Will a stand alone work without tweaking? Yes. Will it be in optimal tune? No. And a stock cast piston motor pushed to the limit without an optimal tune is risking a blown something.
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I respect your opinion about water injection you claim it's proven, I've seen the charts. So you are probably asking yourself why do I keep talking about it? Well simple, I've seen a lot of fast cars out here in California street and strip, and you know what None of them USE water injection to do it.</font>
And a lot of cars blow up too. Just because a lot of people are not using it doesn't mean it's not good. Come on! I guess in that sense the SE-R is not as capable as a Honda because the Honda's are tearing up the drag strip and no SE-R has touched it yet.
It's very possible to *build* read that again...*build* a motor to live under gobs of boost on pump fuel. ****, I've had a hand in a 1000hp small block Chevy on 92 octane piss water! I know first hand.
But the water provides a nice level of *saftey* and for some the ability to make a LOT more power.
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">2 None of them use a piggy back system .
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I hope your not saying JWT is a piggy back?
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">**** show me some japan cars that use water injection?</font>
Many Group A ralley cars come factory with water injection. In fact it's the same system I'm using by ERL.
Do you think that the guys who run 30+psi for hours on end, in grueling conditions and have countless $$$ factory support might just see something in the water?
I understand your point, and if you don't want to run it but all means don't run it. But IMO it's like someone saying, "here's a lifetime supply of 116 octane race gas. Use all you want." And you say "Nahhhh, I just want to make it run on 92 pee water, I don't believe that race gas is all that"
It just doesn't make sense.
[This message has been edited by Jay Hass (edited 02-12-2001).]