[Guest]

got a quickie for you...

on advanced timing, keeping in mind mine is a 2k, mine is set for 15 according to the sticker under the hood. what have you advanced it to? is there something the ecu will do to keep it @ 15 even though i advance it to whatever you suggest? i couldn't find a post on this in the last 75 days, so help is appreciated!

 

[Ben]

You are using this UBB like it's been around a long time, cool

It's only been here since February. Hate to advertise my "arch enemy" heh but www.se-r-list.org, a mailing list, has been around for several years and it's archives has this information.

The good thing about this UBB over the mailing list is that #1 we won't tell you to check the archives everytime you ask a question that's already been asked and refuse the answer unless you've been searching for at least 1 week straight and haven't found it, and #2 the UBB format is just BETTER than a mailing list!

Now, to answer your question, 19 degrees nets the best power increase (learned from Mike Kojima, one of the 5 top SR20 gurus that exist) and some report that this is ok to run on 87 octane, many have said that 17 is the best to run on 87 without pinging, some say use premium for 17 or above. I myself run 17 with 87 and haven't had problems. I think if I ran 19 I would use premium. That's just IMO though

 

[Guest]

thanks for the compliment. i just found this place yesterday and i think it's great. i have been hanging out @ sentra.net and fresh alloy's BB, which is where i found this link. well, 2 posts under my belt, and everyone that has responded has been very helpful! is that enuf brown nosing now?

19 is the magic #, huh? and on 87? schweet. guess i could advance to 19 and if it pings, just retard it a bit. thanks again!

 

[Bowlcut]

Well personaly im still scared of going to 17 well going to do it at the rally i think tho. but i dont know about going to 19 on a almost non modded car. think that number was for highly modded cars going NA not totaly sure tho. 19 seems high for me

Your on FA also. I post there from time to time i havent been lately just reading.

 

[Guest]

19 will be just fine. I do sugest that you run better gas if you go that high. I run at 17 and always use Sanoco (Sp?) 92 or 94 octane gas. I will however run it at more like 19 at the track, and then put it back to 17 for normal street use.

 

[Jason92Classic]

I have the JWT ECU and here are some common questions that I'm having difficulty finding answers to in the archives:

-Why shouldnt I advance my timing?
-Does the ECU do that automatically?
-Can I safely get more power by advancing mine a bit even though I have the ECU?
-What all exactly does my ECU do besides make me run rich?
-Is that why my mileage isnt as good?

Thanks ya'll!

Jason

 

[Ben]

They say the JWT ECU was designed to work with 15 degrees of timing. If you wanted to dyno timing increases I don't see how there could be a problem. I mean you do it on the stock ECU, is it going to blow up with the JWT ECU? Maybe it might knock but you can check for that by listening and checking plugs I believe. I'm pretty sure it advances it to maximum by itself. And your mileage might not be as good if you put your foot in it cuz it's creating more power I think.

 

[Bowlcut]

Ok one by one I guess.

-Why shouldnt I advance my timing? One of the main thing is if you run crappy gas. If you run 87 all the time advancing it can lead to detonation. While its pretty safe from what I heard and know people running 17degrees and 87 I like a bit of overhead for safety. Another is if you have the JWT cams, they are designed for 15 or less IIRC

-Does the ECU do that automatically? Not totaly. It mainly retards it. Dont think it can advance it further than what you set on the distrubtor. It does modulate the timing when it gets a signal from the knock sensor dont think it does it anytime else really. Ive noticed that timing does retard when the fans come on tho not sure why or whatever.

-Can I safely get more power by advancing mine a bit even though I have the ECU? More than likely. The ECU may need to be reprogramed to get full benifit from the advancing but I not an expert on the ECU. I know very little about them. One of the main things to pick up from the advancing is throtle response. Ive heard that past 17 is nothing but for throtle responce, im not totaly sure but thats what i recall reading so dont take it for the law tho.

-What all exactly does my ECU do besides make me run rich? Im not entirely versed in the workings of the ECU so I cant really explain much. It controlls retrading, how much fuel you need for the air coming in to the engine, stuff like that. You tell JWT what you have and they program it correctly when you add stuff you need to get it reprogramed if its a major part of thats what I understand.

-Is that why my mileage isnt as good? Well thats probaly a couple of things. First thing I would do is the cheap/free stuff. Clean the Thortle body and egr system. See if that helps. Then check the ground on the MAF, not totaly sure the b13's are really bad on that but its always a thing to check. I think its more of a b14 problem from what I have noticed that most people that need to do it drive a b14 but thats just an observation. Last thing is the most expensive check the O2 sensor. It could be bad or going. It is usualy the most common problem for bad mileage. But the most expensive. Check all the parts of the engine also, check plugs, plug wires, cap, rotor button, fuel filter, air filter, look to see if any visible cracking hoses, the pcv valve, just go over the engine. whats you mileage anyways?

As for that comment ben I think its the cams that are limited to below 15, cause most people with the ECU have their timing set at 17 usualy. I could be wrong but will go looking sometime soon.

 

[Jason92Classic]

My mileage is 104k.

I got the ECU before the S3 Cams so I dont know if it needs reprogramming or not.

I ALWAYS run 93 octane.

I've never touched the distributor.

I replaced the O2 sensor 6000 miles ago which helped tremendously.

I still average 25 mpg around town (although I do jackrabbit it a bit so I may be normal).

Ya think I should try 17 degrees with s3 cams and jwt ecu?

Thanks for the help...

J

 

[Bowlcut]

Well 25mpg around town is great. I dont get that much but i have an automatic. 25 around town is about normal and you should get around 30 or more on the highway. you are doing good. as for the ecu call JWT and ask they will tell you the truth and its easier than getting someones opinion

 

[Ben]

I haven't got less than 27-28mpg for a long time. My lower mpg (not counting track time at Texas Motorsports Ranch) is 25mpg. Even lapping at the above mentioned road course it only dipped to about 20. I guess all that emissions stuff on the 98-99s have a purpose after all

 

[Ben]

Oh yeah and my best was 34mpg going ~80-85 straight through an entire tank of gas without with AC on

 

[jacen99SE]

I guess I'll follow Bowlcut's lead.

-Why shouldnt I advance my timing? Because its all downhill from here. Then you'll want to ado more stuff to go even faster. No, really, your timing is set conservatively from the factory to have no problems on crappy gas at 110F while running the AC and towing a jet ski without detonation (doesn't elevation some into play somewhere also?). 17 degrees and 87 was fine for me before the cams (I dont own a jet ski yet and I live in Ohio).

Does the ECU do that automatically?
I think it does. I dont know for sure, so keep that in mind. I think that JWT can advance or retard the timing at different rpm under different load conditions (ie, WOT) for better performance. Thats why they want you to set your timing at 15 degrees, so your are starting at the same baseline that their testing was done at. It is also less sensitive to the knock sensor (it takes more knocking for the jwt ecu to retard the timing).

Can I safely get more power by advancing mine a bit even though I have the ECU?
probably not.

-What all exactly does my ECU do?
Increased rev limiter lucky bastard!
Extended 3D air/fuel maps
Dont know what else

-Is that why my mileage isnt as good?
Your mileage is fine for somewhat aggressive city driving

 

[jacen99SE]

by probably not I mean you probaly cant get any more power. come dyno testing with us and find out for sure.

 

[Jason92Classic]

Thanks for the info.

I called Ben from JWT yesterday and he said pretty much the same thing. Timing is perfect for the ECU at 15, dont worry about any higher, etc., etc.

Soooooooooooo, according to him, unless we go into my engine, I'm at the bolt-on limit. What should I do next? Engine swap or Nitrous? I'm tempted by nitrous but the JWT solution will be expensive...

Question: if I'm at my bolt-on limit, what should my HP @ the wheels be? Around 140? That's what I'm guessing. Oh hell, I just remembered: I dont have CAI, maybe that'll help me even more! Anyone got a used one for sale?? I didnt see one on SE-R net that's recent...

Jason

 

[jacen99SE]

At the wheels I think you should be 140-145, with the CAi adding, what, 3 peak hp over a standard POP type setup? How gentle do you want your car to be? JWT has some new cams coming up, but they sacrifice idle quality.
This (dyno testing and new cams) was covered a month or two ago, and I specifically remember rob cadle being involved with the dyno day, I think it was in california. search the archives, i bet you can find a classic with a very similar setup that was a t the dyno day.
Why do an engine swap now after you've done all this work? Would you do a DET swap or go for higher compression NA?

Mmmmmmmmmmmmm, nitrous... If I ever go Nitrous I will get the JWT setup even though its more expensive because of the safety and tuning.