[Guest]

Please no raking me over the coals here!
I was taught to drive, using the engine to help slow the car- not fully, just to help the brakes. Recently on here somewhere, I saw something saying never to do this. Is is really THAT bad for the car? I know the brakes can stop the car better than the engine ever could... i want the best for my '01SE. Comments!?

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Wheel gap is the enemy. "Silver" 2001 SE w/perf.pkg, PR CAI, Intrax.

 

[Limited Slip]

would you rather replace brake pads or an engine

 

[lance]

Gimme a break- the Jake Brake analogy is meaningless, as that procedure entails shutting off the fuel supply & altering the timing in order to produce, in effect, a giant air compressor. There's really no relation to anything in our cars. Putting the trans in neutral while moving is always a bad idea as your screwed if you have to accelerate again suddenly. My '94 SE-R has 176,000 miles on the original clutch and absolutley zero mechanical problems, it's driven hard every day, uses zero oil, and still returns 35+ mpg on the highway.

 

[Bowlcut]

Jake brakes are either cutting the fuel, then you have the exhaust brakes which is what you are talking about when you hear it load up and sound funny. They put a little flap in the exhaust to create backpressure on the turbo to engine brake even more. Like on a Dodge cummings an exhaust brake with generate upwards of 350 braking horsepower to slow you down, which is needed when you are hauling heavy loads and the stock brakes will not stop it ...

As for engine brakeing, ive done it every day of my life driving a 5 speed. Dont do it now cause the damn auto. But anyways we did it on dads truck till the day it died. Front pads got more than 60,000 on them before hitting the squeelers, and back drums were still stock at 140,000 when it died. It doesnt do any harm to the engine, what do you think you do when you let off the gas, its brakeing itself. Downshifting yea you should either slowly let the clutch out or rev match. If you go to second and pop the clutch while slowling down you are going to brake something. But a smooth release wont hurt a thing, wears clutch a tad but no big deal espcialy with all you people doing 4k drops at the drag stip. I personaly cant stand people that sit at redlights or stop signs in neutral. What happens if you had to move in an emergency? You wont make it more than likely. I was taught the same way my dad was taught to drive, like you have a load of water behind you. Since my grandfather was a Gulf oil tanker driver. You have to be smooth EVERYWHERE. And just jabing on the brakes will slosh that **** around. Smoothness is everything, and I still drive that way unless I want to jerk things around...which really gets ya no where fast.

 

[JimR]

I rarely row down through the gears when I approach a red light or stop sign, and I've never been caught out to dry, let alone screwed. Having to be in gear all the time is outdated bunk.

It's easy to judge when it's safe and prudent to drop out of gear and coast to a stop.

Keep an iron toe on the clutch at stoplights all you want, but I'll take my chances and slip into neutral when the forecast calls for a 100% chance of going nowhere.

 

[Guest]

What if you have one of those seemingly indestructable ACT cluthes, it that case I would think you would spend more money replacing brake pads since you wouldn't be replacing the cluth anytime soon.

 

[Scarpa]

I don't think engine braking really matters at all for daily driving. For road racing/autox however, it's a bad habit to have. Your brakes can slow the car down MUCH better than your engine can. So if you're really trying to go as fast as possible, that means you're trying to brake as hard as possible, hence you want to use your brakes and not your engine to slow down.



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Paul
'92 NX2000 w/ mods

 

[lance]

It's fine- just make sure to match the revs when you downshift so you don't fry the clutch.

 

[Storm88000]

Well wouldn't you rather save gas and put more stress on the brakes than the engine?

If I use the engine to slow the car I will rev-match, but most of the time I just put it in neutral and apply the brakes.

 

[pjsammy]

Don't do it!!!!! It is BAD for your car!! If you ever here semis using their jake-brakes (thats the loud, sick sound they make), that is what engine braking does to your car. The problem is, semis are able to do this, cuz they can release the pressure from the engine (hence the loud noise). Cars can't do this. Here's a better explanation from a great car site I use a lot (http://www.autopia-carcare.com/downshifting.html) :

It’s not our fault. We were simply handed down a bad habit. Although it may seem to be the natural thing to do, and it certainly sounds great in sports cars, down shifting to slow down is bad for your car. By down shifting to slow your car, instead of using your brakes, you put more wear and tear on the clutch, transmission synchronizer rings, and the engine crankshaft. Clutches and transmissions are expensive to repair. The average clutch replacement is $900 to $1,800. It’s not uncommon for a clutch replacement in a high performance sports car to cost upwards of $2,500. Compare this to the $250 to $300 cost of replacing brake pads, and it’s not hard to figure out that replacing the binders is a lot more economical than running through the gears.

Hope that helps a little.

 

[Guest]

Storm- I use premimum gas, so I can't be worried about mileage ;-( It sets me up for corners, and just feels very natural to me.

 

[JimR]

Always engine braking is a dated practice, IMO.

All of our SR20 cars are equipped with four-wheel-disk, and sometimes ABS - plenty of stopping ability. Engine braking is probably a throwback to the days when cars and trucks had tiny, barely adequate drum or disk/drum combinations.

Unless decending an extremely steep hill, I see no reason not to just snick into neutral and use the brakes for what they're for: braking. Of course, there are all kinds of situations (downing a gear for a bend), but if you're coming up to a red light or similar, engine braking isn't going to do you any better than put wear on the drivetrain.

You can buy an all right set of front pads, jug of brake fluid, and shims for not much more than $50. Compare that to years of wear from unnecessary downshifts on your clutch and engine, both expensive bits. You just saved a whole pad change.

[This message has been edited by JimR (edited 05-18-2001).]

 

[pjsammy]

OK, I stand corrected on the "Jake Brake" deal. I was misinformed. Second, if matching revs, then engine braking is pretty much harmless, but just downshifting and letting the clutch right out cannot be good for a car. Most people perform the action the second way (just let the clutch right out). This is why, *generally* speaking (as it applies to the population as a whole), engine braking is bad. If you match revs (or are on a steep decent), then I've got no major problem with it.


[This message has been edited by pjsammy (edited 05-19-2001).]

 

[Guest]

But it makes such a cool sound when you shift into second at 50mph...

 

[UrbN]

engine braking.... i've heard people tell me that, but... if i'm slowing down, i try to engine brake, but i can't tell i'm slowing down, so i have to end up using the brake, if i'm in 5th, i'll slip down to 4th.. do i let off the clutch a little or what?

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Kenneth

1996 RED SE-R w/dynomax Superturbo Exhaust

[This message has been edited by UrbN (edited 05-19-2001).]

 

[lance]

It shouldn't be one or the other- a combination of brakes and engine is the best way to slow. I would never let the clutch out without the revs matched- the clutch shouldn't be slowing you down, just the engine. Also, I don't have a particular problem with having the transmission in neutral at a stop, I just don't agree with some peoples habit of putting it in neutral at 50 mph and then applying the brakes until the car is stopped. When I exit a corner I want to be ready to accelerate immediately and not have to downshift. Who doesn't like the sound of a SR20DE revving down anyway? Music to my ears.

 

[Limited Slip]

forget the whole clutch thing. would you rather have your engine churning at 6000RPM or idle speed?

 

[UrbN]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Limited Slip:
forget the whole clutch thing. would you rather have your engine churning at 6000RPM or idle speed?</font>

gotta point, i was schooled to use brakes, not like i go 100mph then try and come to complete stop..


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Kenneth

1996 RED SE-R w/dynomax Superturbo Exhaust

[This message has been edited by UrbN (edited 05-19-2001).]

 

[PNWser]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Doug H:
But it makes such a cool sound when you shift into second at 50mph... </font>

Duuuude

Try it with a DET and nothing from the cat back =)
SWEET! *got wood*



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David Lau <[email protected]>
Stop Fast, corner better B13 SER in Vancouver, WA