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Andreas Miko said:
If you have read this complete post you should have come to a conclusion already.

1. Use an 8 CWC
2. Use a VE oil pump These bad boys will net over 100 PSI
3. Use Mobil 1 oil
4. Put an oil cooler on your car.


As for me I will be making a larger capacity oil pan at the end of Oct. I am hoping to get 1 more quart of oil down there. It should be 1/4 in deeper and will not extend out past the edge of the oil pan seal. I already have the design. It will also have fins on the sides and back to help in cooling the oil by increasing the aluminum surface. Yes I am talking about the lower oil pan and it will be made in aluminum

My theroy here is I should have lower oil temps and my oil change interval should be less. I hope my math is correct here. Here I go, If you go from 4 quarts to 5 quarts oil capasity will increase 25%. I am also hoping that more oil will aid in haveing cooler oil. By having one more quart of oil the time it takes for the complete 5 quarts to run through the motor will be higher so less stress on the oil and by making the pan out of aluminum with the fins I should have cooler oil.

I might also change the design to fit 6 quarts but I dont now if I want the pan sticking out past the edges, but we will see. If I do that will be a 50% increase in oil capacity
I'd be willing to buy one of those pans from you miko.The price does not matter.
 

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SR20Turbofreak said:
You can get the VVL N1 water pump pulley from greg, he has the real ones and aluminum ones i think. You can also get the crank pulley in aluminum too.

This is the aluminum one that he sells:

 

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Jah Rastafari
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mpg9999 said:
Greg Vogel sells one that is slightly larger then the VE pulley (which I believe is already larger then the DE pulley).
The DE and VE pully is the same as far as Diameter

The Pully that was sold by Greg V has the same inner pully size for the VE.

The outer size is smaller and that runs the Alt and AC.

Hey Mike just get an electric water pump
 

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Jah Rastafari
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ok we are talking about the water pump pully itself. I misunderstood.

Get an electric water pump anyway
 

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SR20Turbofreak said:
I had a VE pump on my last VET, I had it apart a few times to shim it to get the oil pressures I wanted. I was making 100psi at 4000rpm and 120psi at 9,000rpm. I have used them on DE/DET's too and never had any problems.
Sounds good, but does anyone have an idea if it works properly on the RWD engines? I'm assuming if I were to install the VE pump along with the VE spacer I could use the RWD pulley. Then the problem of getting the accessories to line up is the issue.

I was originally going VE head, but I've talked myself into a solid DE head out of simplicity. Operational RPM will be no higher than 8500 RPM but the loading the rods is going to be circa 500whp under full boost. You guys think the DE pump is suited for this role?

Again, what size oil restrictors were you guys using?
 

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Discussion Starter #109
mpg9999 said:
Greg Vogel sells one that is slightly larger then the VE pulley (which I believe is already larger then the DE pulley).
the crank pulley? In road racing it is good to get both and really slow down the water pump.
 

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Discussion Starter #110
Andreas Miko said:
ok we are talking about the water pump pully itself. I misunderstood.

Get an electric water pump anyway
I don't like eletric water pumps, I don't trust the reliabilty under road race conditions. I know of two that have failed.

Does anyone make a crank pulley? I run an N1 water pump and an UR crank to really underdrive the water pump.
 

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Professor Dingbat
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Is there an underdrive pulley that works with the VE pump? As you know roadracers need that to prevent overheating.
If you are running only one belt to the alternator, the DE U/R pulley works fine. If you are running the Powersteering/waterpump belt you need the VE crank pulley.
 

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Discussion Starter #113
FastNX said:
If you are running only one belt to the alternator, the DE U/R pulley works fine. If you are running the Powersteering/waterpump belt you need the VE crank pulley.
Arent the gears in the VE pump deeper so the nose of the UD pulley is too long and it would stick out or the crank bolt would not register properly right?
 

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Professor Dingbat
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The pulley does sit further out, which means the belt would not line up between the waterpump and the grooves on the crank pulley.

It works for the alternator belt because you are only using a 4 rib belt and there are 6-7 ribs on the alternator pulley, so it is possible to get the grooves to line up between the alternator and the crank pulley. It is just one groove over from where it 'should' be.

I see what you mean about the bolt. I suppose the washer is meant to bottom out on the snout of the crank and retain the pulley. In the situation I am talking about, the washer bottoms out against the pulley. I had never thought of that.
 

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choaderboy2 said:
Arent the gears in the VE pump deeper so the nose of the UD pulley is too long and it would stick out or the crank bolt would not register properly right?
it will stick out...you need to take it to a machine shop with the OEM ve crank pully so they can match it...its really cheap and simple but off the shelf it doesn't allign.
 

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We have fitted both UR and OBX 4 peice underdrive pully sets to VE's here and have had no issues beyond some minor machining to make them fit.
 

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Wow I really gotta thank you guys. So much food for thought in this thread. My ultimate goal is to keep the VE head/cam setup I have now and build a bottom end capable of withstanding the occasional 9000rpm blast. Underdrive pulleys, 8cw cranks are all a given but bigger sumps, girdles and such I had not so much considered. I guess it's more information to digest before I take the plunge and start building!
 

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Andreas Miko said:
You can put a girdle in a VE with the VE caps. All you need is the DE main studs and a DE girdle. I have done this many times before.

There is no need to get DE main caps and to have the block align bored.

Also putting a girdle back in the motor will also cost a loss of HP. This ha been tested by me, SR20Turbofreak and by many Nissan raceers. You will loos about 5-7 WHP when putting the girdle back in the motor. I only do this when turboing or using NOS on the VE.
You're correct about the hp loss and the same holds true for the KA engines. Some KA racers revert to the individual main bearing caps from the truck block or slice out the arms of the girdle. Nismo did unpublished testing that confirmed the loss at about 5%.

One of the big culprits is the "corporate" hump in the pan for access to the torque converter bolts. That sticks up way inside the girdle valley and creates a high pressure zone in the last piston bay. I say "corporate" because the same hump is present in the steel KA pans -- it is a general design feature to make servicing the engines easier when they use an automatic tranny. Here is a pic of the hump inside the upper sump:



If you look at the block it appears that Nissan put in two sets of gas ports/passages at the number two and four mains to help lessen the pumping/windage losses. Also note how the underside of the girdle and forward and trailing edges of the main caps are rounded. You can tell it was a major issue during the initial design and testing of the engine since these details depart from their other designs at the time. If you are running a manual, I would recommend slicing that hump out and welding in a flat piece.

I think the loss is going to be more severe in the "narrow" blocks such as the Avenir pic below where the oil pan rail is tight up against the girdle on both the up and downstroke sides of the block. Pic:



Here is what I mean by a "wide" block (pic below); you can see the additional room between the pan rail and girdle on the upstroke side of the block:



Aside: I will take a guess and say that Nissan developed the narrow block first and retained it for clearance issues in many applications. I think the wide block was another effort to lower windage losses -- you can see the vestigal/unused first oil pan bolt hole from the narrow version in the wide block casting.

Ok, now a plug. ;)

A bunch of owners have been after me for quite a while to design some more windage control products for the SR20 and SR16 -- fully counterweighted cranks, partially counterweighted cranks, girdle, no girdle, etc.

Pictured underneath is a set of baffles that fit inside the downstroke side of the block. They help direct the oil from the numerous drains from the head on that side away from the rotating assembly and around the girdle (or to the side of the pan if you're not running a girdle). Each has an incorporated crank scraper in the center for the passing rod and also a deflector at the top to help guide the windage more smoothly past the arm of the girdle. There are segregation baffles at the number one main and the number three main to help depress windage travel along the crank. There are still open passages between bays one and two and three and four to allow bay to bay breathing during the rise and fall of the piston pairs. On the wider blocks a crank scraper is incorporated on the upstroke side and this can be a Teflon scraper if desired. The scavenged oil will fall outside the girdle and away from the rotating assembly. On the narrow blocks there is simply no room for this.





You can install it with or without the girdle:





These products are backwards compatible with the previous crank scrapers and windage trays that mount in the girdle valley and they are designed to work in unison.

The baffles are a way of bringing the SR20 block forward to the oil control standards you see in many current engines. Quite a few have dedicated oil passages leading from the head to the sump to isolate that flow from the rotating assembly.

I suggested removing the hump in the pan and I can supply optimized scrapers and windage trays for the girdle valley that have full coverage for the fourth bay. I will also supply a shaped piece of aluminum plate that you or a local shop can weld into place to close up the pan.

As an aside, you should smooth the underside of the girdle arms (towards the head) -- the example I have has a pretty rough cast finish which is likely typical.

Kevin
 
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