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VVL sucks in pedestrians
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was tracking my car (NX with a stock VE) last weekend and noticed that after 5+ minutes of racing the oil temperature was between 250-260 deg F (measured in the oil pan just above the drain plug). I was wondering how high is high, please consider the following conditions:

- Mobil 1 10w-40 was used
- Air temperature was around 15 deg Celsius (59 deg F)
- Coolant was at 180 deg F at all times (Stanza pulley helped)
- Oil pressure stayed at 80-90psi most of the time during acceleration
- RPM band was between 3.5K - 7K (frequently shifting at 6.7K which was actually 400 rpm higher than what the consult showed after the runs)

As a reference, during highway drive the oil temperature is 170-180 deg F.

Is this a safe temperature or should I increase the viscosity of oil (10W-50).
Also what is the drain interval for oil changes at the track that you guys go by, I did around 120km at the track (15 min sessions followed by cool down which I took advantage to cool down the brakes plus cool down the oil to 220 deg F before parking the car for another 10 min between sessions) on the weekend and considering changing the oil every 1500 km running at the track. Let me know your opinions, thanks.
 

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Your temps are quite high!
Definitely get a cooler.

I believe you have an all around Mobil1 5W50 but you could also run for track a 10W60. No more than 10W though.
No track experience myself. But during summer with 108F and stuck in traffic for long my oil never got over 230F without cooler. With the cooler i see no more than 212F

Oil pan is the hottest place you could place a sensor. I run mine with a greddy built-in thermostat sandwich plate adaptor.
 

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I use 15w-50 for track time without a cooler. When I see 240deg, I short shift and slow down for a lap or so, depending on the track length.
 

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bitemyshinymetalass
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Get a cooler. It also increases volume of oil total, personally I like filter relocate to pass side, makes for super easy oil changes. In my U13's KA it increased volume from 4.5 quarts to 7 quarts, partly due to larger filter (now uses a PH16-sized fender-mount filter) and the cooler itself. I think the cooler was 11x4x2" including the flat plate end mounts, so the cooler is more like 9x4x2".

I have been running Rotella Syn 5W-40W HD, it's only $20 a gallon at Wally Mart, and is tough oil. If you search on my user posts either here or on another similarly named forum there is a link back to a good DIY oil cooler, just don't use cheap fittings or lines like many "kits" use, that stuff is crap.

I don't own a VE so IDK if there are any special considerations if you relocate the filter, but my general experience is because of the sig volume of oil external to the engine, you tend to also get instant oil pressure on the return side.

What I don't get is why does the VE run cool with a good pump and cooling system yet it wants to cook its oil? With coolant temps at 80 Celsius I would expect even with the added power, you'd stay well under a safe temp.:confused:

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Get a cooler. It also increases volume of oil total, personally I like filter relocate to pass side, makes for super easy oil changes. In my U13's KA it increased volume from 4.5 quarts to 7 quarts, partly due to larger filter (now uses a PH16-sized fender-mount filter) and the cooler itself. I think the cooler was 11x4x2" including the flat plate end mounts, so the cooler is more like 9x4x2".

I have been running Rotella Syn 5W-40W HD, it's only $20 a gallon at Wally Mart, and is tough oil. If you search on my user posts either here or on another similarly named forum there is a link back to a good DIY oil cooler, just don't use cheap fittings or lines like many "kits" use, that stuff is crap.

I don't own a VE so IDK if there are any special considerations if you relocate the filter, but my general experience is because of the sig volume of oil external to the engine, you tend to also get instant oil pressure on the return side.

What I don't get is why does the VE run cool with a good pump and cooling system yet it wants to cook its oil? With coolant temps at 80 Celsius I would expect even with the added power, you'd stay well under a safe temp.:confused:

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This conversation seems very familiar. :rofl:
 

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bitemyshinymetalass
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This conversation seems very familiar. :rofl:
LOL, it sure does. I just don't like the idea of having to slow down to let the oil temp drop, I'm slow enough already ;)

It's the kind of thing that makes me not want to put a VE in the car, just deal with the race (or near-race) JWT C2 cams on my DE and call it done. I may only see 170's for peak whp and it will be higher up than a stock VE, but cams/springs/retainers when I am sitting on a new set of cams seems a lot easier than a swap.

It's just weird to me I can run a DE with 140 whp all day (and I do mean all day, back to back sessions with most of the time spent near or at the rpm where that peak whp lives) and not have oil temp issues w/o a cooler, but add another 40-50 peak whp suddenly oil temps won't stay in the zone...so far everyone I've met who tracks their car with a VE says the same thing, they mostly pull it down a notch and let it cool down, and their cooling system otherwise works fine for coolant temps. What is so different?

I'll have to go back and check Mike K's last Dog car, the one with the VE16 cams and 200+ whp. Curious to see what that car runs for cooling.
 

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bitemyshinymetalass
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Also what is the drain interval for oil changes at the track that you guys go by, I did around 120km at the track (15 min sessions followed by cool down which I took advantage to cool down the brakes plus cool down the oil to 220 deg F before parking the car for another 10 min between sessions) on the weekend and considering changing the oil every 1500 km running at the track. Let me know your opinions, thanks.
Because I'm not seeing those temps, and Rotella syn has been shown to be very resistant to thermal viscosity breakdown, better than M1 in that area, so I don't change that short of an interval. I've seen several Blackstone lab tests in more powerful motors like my VQ35 where even at 3k miles with good amount of track miles in there, no issues with viscosity, it's a heavy use oil. M1 is fine, too, I just prefer to use the same in all 3 cars and Rotella is a better deal, at least around where I live.

Get a clean sample and send it off for UOA, it's pretty cheap, and then you'll know next change how you're doing. What works for me or anyone else may not be right for you, UOA testing shows that there is a lot of variability in performance of oil over time even in "similar" use. Mostly IMHO because motors are different, and people tend to generalize describing their actual use.

I still do change with mixed use street/track every 2k miles on average, sometimes less or more depending on time of year and what I have coming up (e.g. long weekend I'll change sooner). Maybe wasteful but oil is cheap and so are filters...
 

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merely a flesh wound
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VE's run hot at the track, that's a fact. Mine was hitting 260* after about 5 laps at the convention. I think it might be a function of the oil squirters pulling heat out of the pistons and putting it into the oil. I don't plan on doing many track days with the VE, but if I did, a decent oil cooler would be a priority.

There are some worthwhile posts on the subject on the forum, many of them started by Steve Foltz (98SR20VE).

Search as follows:
Search: Key Word(s): cooler ; Threads Started By: 98sr20ve

This is another good one:
http://www.sr20forum.com/road-racing/192963-cooling-issues.html

C
 

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I was about to post that the oil squirters could be to blame. Do DETs have the same problems, or does the turbo heat the oil more?
 

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VVL sucks in pedestrians
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks for your input, that's why I am running higher viscosity oil so I don't thin out the oil at that temperature (10w40 high mileage is 30% thicker than then 10w30 at 100 deg C). I am not sure what is going to happen during higher outside temperatures but given that my coolant temperatures were very low (less than 200 deg F on the track) things might heat up with the oil as well so I might try 15W50 mobil 1 then with 1000 miles changes- still cheaper than a cooler as I have no time or $ for it now.
 

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bitemyshinymetalass
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