[Psch91]

This wasnt answered in the newbie section, so im trying my luck here

Hey guys,
I have a 1995 Nissan 200sx-SE (auto) with the GA16DE engine in it. Over the summer, I was thinking about doing an engine swap, and I see the most common one is the SR20DE engine. I started looking around and then saw SR20DET engines. I saw some de's for about 700-750$, but the DET's were about 2400+ dollars. I know the SR20DET comes with a turbo, but I was wondering what the best way to go was, and which one would even work in my car.

I was on heavythrottle.com and saw

Black-Top S14 SR20DET 220hp $3500
S13 Red Top SR20DET 205hp $2400
S13 Black Top SR20DET 205hp $2800

Which one of these would I be best off with, or should I just get a normal SR20DE and work my way up?

Thanks

 

[Lyn Labahn]

None of those engines will work in your car. They are all RWD and came from the Japanese Silvia.

The engine you are looking for comes from the Bluebird or Pulsar GTi-R. If I were in your position, I would get a Bluebird from Jason Garrett Young, or Andreas Miko.

 

[Psch91]

Oh, ok, I didnt see it being listed as RWD or FWD, I saw on another site

FWD Sr20DET Nissan BlueBird Motors are in sotck.
205hp @ 10psi
Max Stock Boost 16psi = 280hp
Most Engines have about 25,000 Kilometers. Includes:
Engine, Trans, ECU & Wiring Harness.
Price: 2,500

http://www.bee.net/a2low240/gauges/parts.html

That would work right? And what about the max stock boost, does that seem correct?

 

[CowboyDren]

Actually, the Bluebird and Avenir (AWD) are probably the engines you'd want to watch out for. There are bajillions (seemingly) of U12 Bluebird engines out there (red top, TMIC), but the Avenir and U13 Bluebird engines (some red, some silver, all FMIC) are starting to pop up. The Pulsar GTi-R engine is just a huge headache, unless you're looking for 400+ horsepower.

Those boost and horsepower numbers are both more than a little out of line, and those prices are WAY out of line. Call Soko for a $1500 engine (like, $150 to ship it), with similar age and included parts. Expect a max of 230 WHP with a Bluebird engine, max boost of around 12-14 PSI, and only in bursts at that.

 

[Psch91]

CowboyDren, would you go for the SOKO engine with those boost levels and WHP, or would you go for something else if you had my car? Im looking for good performance. Would you rather build up from a SR20DE? Because my main concern is for the turbo, a kit is like 2000-3000 dollars, but the SR20DET BB comes with a turbo, for (what you said) 1500$.

"only in bursts at that" what exactly do you mean?

 

[CowboyDren]

Keep in mind that Bluebirds and Avenirs have "touring" engines, which happen to have lots of horsepower. They're designed to operate at around 0.5bar of boost all the time. When you get to .7 or .8 bar, the turbo that comes on those engines starts experiencing reversion, which is the mechanical equivalent of constipation. Reversion pushes up cylinder temps, and causes detonation, which is a bad thing. For normal street use, with the stock turbocharger, you should keep near-stock boost levels, only going up to 12 PSI or so occasionally, and only for short periods of time. A moderate turbo upgrade changes everything, though.

If you want streetable power, one could either turbocharge a DE engine or get a DET. The turbo kit for a DE is more expensive, but also produces more power initially. Sometimes too much power. A DET is a lot safer, though, and you can always get a bigger turbo later. Have you driven a 200 WHP Sentra lately? It's a lot more power than people seem to think that it is. Drive around with a DET for a while and upgrade slowly; a 400 WHP Sentra is not as much fun as it sounds like to live with every day.

 

[Psch91]

Alright, thanks

But wasnt the engine you told me to get from Soko a DET?

I asked you about the "FWD Sr20DET Nissan BlueBird Motor" on that one site, which you replied the Soko engine with. With that engine, could I always boost at about 8 PSI for everyday driving. With that boost, what WHP would I be looking at, and do you have some times to look at?

 

[CowboyDren]

Yes, Soko also sells SR20DETs, and for less money than that place sells them. For your information, there's no such thing as an "FWD" SR20DET; they're all either AWD or RWD; Bluebirds, Avenirs, and Pulsar GTi-Rs are all AWD. Silvias are RWD.

Yes, you can run about 8 PSI every day with no problems. You can expect about 190-195 WHP at that level, from what I've seen, but I'm no expert. On this subject you should probably listen to somebody else's replies, not mine.

The key with starting with a DET engine vs. a DE is that when you want more, you can have it. LOTS of it. Lots of it, at a safer margin than you could with a DE. Sounds like you have a lot of research ahead of you; take your time and learn before you start giving out your credit card number or lay a wrench on a bolt.

 

[Psch91]

Heh thanks.

ill defenitaly look around some more, I have till the end of summer.

 

[Psch91]

Sorry to be a newbie bother, but how many WHP, logically of course, could be had with this engine if the internals were updated?

 

[92SE-R]

Umm...it really depends on how much you want to spend to strengthen the internals and what your concept of internal work is. The Hyper Lemon JUN Sylvia puts out 700 whp but is also stroked to 2.2L. AFAIK. Stock internals can put out 400+ whp and handle 24 psi.

Cowboy, I also disagree with you about the statement about the DET vs. the DE. They both have the same limiting factor, which is the stock cast pistons so technically, they both max out around the same power levels. Yes, the DET can run without race gas or water injection at higher boost levels, but with both motors with gas and water injection, they will still be limited by the pistons. Ringlands start to go bye bye above 24 psi.

 

[CowboyDren]

... technically, they both max out around the same power levels. Yes, the DET can run without race gas or water injection at higher boost levels,

Which is my point exactly. Sorry that I wasn't clear about this, but as you can see, I'm just getting into the learning phase myself, and not very good about putting all of my thoughts into the right words. Thanks for your patience, Terrin.

 

[92SE-R]

LOL, I think all of us are still in a learning phase. I don't know jack compared to some of the members on this forum.

 

[nyc_mikee]

Which is my point exactly. Sorry that I wasn't clear about this, but as you can see, I'm just getting into the learning phase myself, and not very good about putting all of my thoughts into the right words. Thanks for your patience, Terrin.

Cowboy, I'm on the b15sentra.net boards also...I've been hangin' out with a couple of "turbo" heads (one owns a galant VR-4 turbo and the other a '95 DSM GS-X who runs 12's)...These guys have made me want to get turbo BAD I got an '01 SE SR20DE also and I'm thinkin really hard about droppin' a DET in there, so I will spending this summer learning about how to get this done...Sounds like you're on your way also to turbo'ing your car so please keep me in the loop with any info you get, and I'll do the same...Can't wait till Trav comes out with some more details about his setup!

 

[CowboyDren]

Yeah, I reckonize. Turbos are fun, but I just don't know if I can justify the cost. To gently mold this thread back on-topic, I stand by my recommendation of getting a used SR20DET and putting that in any car that you're considering turbocharging. It's a little more expensive for a little less initial power, but it's definitely worth the piece of mind IMHO. It's most important that you keep in mind what each particular DET is capable of, secondarily that you get your engine from a reliable source, and finally that you get a reasonable price on your engine and labor.

A full DET conversion is especially worth it on a B15 or a later ('98/99) B14, where it can kill so many birds with one stone. Not only do you get the low-compression engine with oil squirters and cool stuff like that, but you get the old-style engine sensors, harness, and ECU that go with it, so getting JWT to reprogram it for mondo-cool-**** is that much easier.

Now if only JWT would flow test our (B15/SR) MAF sensors so that we could stop screwing around with non-Sentra units.

 

[Rockwood]

also, remember that Frank O did 380 whp on the stock motor, JWT cams, STOCK ignition and NO water, full exhaust and C16.

the limiting factor on both motors will still be the ringlands, head gasket and cast pistons, all of which are likely to fail above 22 psi, or about 400 whp. i think the compression ratio doesnt come into effect until higher boost levels are used. remember, Frank didnt have to back his timing off, and i dont think you are going to hit 400 whp on 8.5 or 8.2:1 without C16. both will do about 260-280 whp tops on pump gas. i think mike K hit 300 whp on a built motor on pump gas.

correct me if i am wrong.

 

[Rockwood]

convert a DE to a DE(T) if you are on a budget. go FMAX if you crave more power. DET swap isnt worth it unless you blew up your old motor.

 

[Psch91]

If I were to get the Bluebird engine (SR20DET) for my 95 SE, what would be the area of top speed, theoretically. My car now goes about 109 mph.

And Hotsht, you mentioned its only worth getting a DET if the engine was blown. On my car now, it takes me 15 seconds to get to 60 mph. Instead of putting money in to fix up the engine, id rather spend 3000 or around there getting and installing a new engine.

 

[Rockwood]

well, that was assuming you had an SR20DE already. you have the GA16DE. i would not recommend turboing you existing motor.

 

[Rockwood]

the JWT computer has no top speed governer. i have taken mine to super illegal speeds, and the only thing limiting it seems to be the gearing. i was turning 7500 rpm in 5th, only 200 more to go, and it was pulling strong.