The JDM/USDM Roller Rocker SR20DE Info Thread

XxToKeSxX · Mar 4, 2006

Hey Guys/Gals,
It's your local SR20 fan Ameen here. As some of you know, recently I have had some problems with my current engine. To cut to the chase: I recently purchased a newer JDM lowport Roller Rocker SR20DE that a member (ever so kindly) picked up for me.

. I actually didn't know much about the differences between a normal SR20 and the Roller Rocker version. I figured that I should do some information hunting and post for all to see. Hopefully this will help other people in the future that may decide to go this option. (As well as encourage people that the Searching Before You Ask is your best friend on this forum.)

Had to Live up to my word

I will be making a fully organized thread on all the research of this particular engine and for roller rockers in general... As I didn't find lot of support for this engine... I also will be making a similar detailed thread on the swap process. I know I wouldn't be the first person to have a JDM RR, but I would like to get rid of all the misconceptions and boost support for this option.

All in all, I really just got lucky (others wouldn't think so)... And I plan to take advantage of the fact that I have been blessed to have the chance to do something that not everyone does, and stick with it (regardless of the rumors).

With the possible help of some of the people here: I hope to share the information that I get in the future so that more people will hop on the train (per se).

I really hope that this all helps... As it helped me... Maybe later this can be a sticky? Please feel free to ADD.

The JDM/USDM Roller Rocker SR20DE
Info Thread Starts HERE!!!!

Even More Information on Following Pages...
Press Ctrl+F to search for Specific Words on a Page

Table Of Contents/Index:
Page 1: General Info on Everything I Could Think Of | Props from SR20 Forum
Page 2: Compression Theory | Physical Differences B/N Regular DE | Efficiency | Power
Page 3: Comp. Theory Cont. | OEM vs. Tubular Header | Which ECU? | Water Pump? | USDM IM w/ RR VC | Engine Break Down
Page 4: Dyno Testimony | Reg. DE & RR DE VC Compat. | Water Pump Compat. | Power Curve Diff. | Pulleys | Boost Capability
Page 5: ECU Tuning & Ign. Timing | 4CW Crank VS. 8CW Crank | Swap Complete | PCV Schematic - USDM IM | 96-99 Almera GTI

What Does That Mean?:
IM = Intake Manifold
VC = Valve Cover
RR = Roller Rocker
CW = Counterweight
B/N = Between

Compat. = Compatibility
Diff. = Difference
Ign. = Ignition
Comp. = Compression

Disclaimer: There may be contradictions here but most of the stuff here is quoted... I am just learning and this information is here for people to learn from and discuss. This isn't posted here because I think its all right. I did not post names under the quotes because that isn't what this is about. If you see something here that you would like credit for.. Please let me know.. I will make a Bibliography/Props Section! Feel free to add or PM me to add information that is also crucial.

Check out my RR Swap Process Here:
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread.php?t=149108

First off, The Roller Rocker SR20DE Roll Call List... Add Your RR & Name!!! - 03/13/06
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread.php?t=148945

The SR20DE(t) Compression/HeadCode List
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread.php?t=132608&highlight=53j
Lot of good information in this thread.. Please see the codes...

Some more Head/Block Code Information
http://www.g20.net/forum/showthread.php?t=21195&highlight=2j2

Heads:
53J: '91-'93.5 P10 (USDM high port intake manifold)
94Y: '93.5-'96 P10 (USDM low port intake manifold)
2J2: '01?-'02 p11 (Roller rocker arms, Low port intake manifold)
52F: Highport DET RWD (blacktop)
54C: Pulsar GTiR

Cylinder Blocks
53J: FWD '91-'02? G20 (unsure what block was used in P11 but I think 53J)
78E: AWD Primera T4 (DE), Bluebird SSS(DET)
52F: RWD DET (blacktop)
54C: ??AWD DET (Pulsar)

My JDM Roller Rocker Engine Information:
866695A - I really feel like its from 97 or 98... not sure though...
the engine code is lower than my usdm code... The bold is what I have...

Ribs on the head
All Silver RR Valve Cover
53J On the head
Distrib facing the fire wall (No Distributor/swapping 98 over)
Big TPS (Not sure)
Auto Tranny (I have an auto flywheel, need to switch)
Lowport (JDM Manifold/Needs to be switched]
red injectors
NO egr
5R on the head (distrib side)
tubular exhaust manifold (I think mine is just like the USDM)

I purchased this engine for $550 from Soko/Soken Engines in Chicago, Illinois. They have different locations. They were very helpful and there is a 6-month warranty on all parts. Here is the information:

-> Soken Southgate Cali. - 323-563-2018
-> Soko Engines Chicago - 847-451-1400
-> Soken Engines (Forget Location) Cali. - 310-324-7788

I Popped my VC when I recieved the engine... I had never seen what roller rockers look like... its a pretty simple concept.

Here is what they look like after the engine was mounted

Similar Engine as Mine...
http://www.g20.net/forum/showthread.php?t=37653&highlight=primera+roller

Information on JDM engines (easily swappable for a Lowport)
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread.php?t=68304&highlight=bolts+easiest+lowport

let me clarify. sr20 motor that bolts in the easiest to the lowport 200sx with the least amount of modification of sensors etc., such as a certain year primera, bluebird, or whatever.
P10 PRIMERA SR20DE 53J 40-60k mi $375.00 6 Month 0/15 Champagne
P10E PRIMERA SR20DE 53J$600.00 6 Month Yes 0/-1 09/90~04/93 Red/Black
P10E PRIMERA GT SR20DE 89J EGR & Tubular Exhaust Manifold $1,000.00
P11 PRIMEAR SR20DE Silver 2J2 $750.00 6mo/6k Yes 0/0
P11 PRIMERA SR20DE Black 2J2 $750.00 6mo/6k 0/0
P11 PRIMERA SR20VE Black 1N5 $2,200.00 Startup Picture 0/0
P11E PRIMERA SR20DE $1,300.00 0/0

Where Should I buy my Used Engine??? Different Engine Importers in the U.S. - 03/05/06
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread.php?t=147913

(On used engines) Sensors being broken off can happen to any used engine you buy. This can happen in shipping and handling. These things are the least of the problem becasue they can be changed over from the old motor being pulled out of your car. The motor itself needs to be in A1 condition the sesors are secondary.

Please note when you are buying a used motor is is used it is not some new motor you are buying from the dealer or a parts catalogue.

Why JDM engines have low milage & are cheap... - 03/05/06
http://www.g20.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9697&highlight=primera+roller

In Japan, when a car reaches about 30,000 miles on the clock (maybe it's 50k Kilometers?), the vehicle has to go through a complete inspection to be re-licensed for use on public roads. During this inspection, every bearing, every bushing, every seal, and every weld is examined with an ultra-fine-toothed comb. By the time the inspection is done and all "insufficient" parts are noted on a list, it's just as economical for a Japanese car owner to buy a new car as it would be to "fix" their cars. The result is thousands upon thousands of perfectly good engines and transmissions (not to mention bodywork, bodyglass, signal lenses, and so on) that just sit in a junkyard, discarded.

A few years ago, somebody got the brilliant idea to start importing either powertrains or even whole front clips to the US, where cars aren't "old" until they've clocked 150-200k miles. This is how we can get complete 30,000-mile engines and transmissions for $600 to your doorstep. Even special engines like SR20VEs or SR20DETs can be had for a fraction of the cost of a normal engine from a US junkyard.

Highport, Lowport... What is THAT??? - 03/06/06
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread.php?t=76933

High-port - throttle body sits below the injectors (you can see the injectors but not the throttle body).

Low-port - throttle body sits above the injectors (you can see the throttle body but not the injectors).

91-93 SE-Rs, 91-93 NX2000s and 90-93 G20s had high-ports, while '94 and above SE-Rs and G20s had low-ports.

I believe that there were some 94's that actually had highports early in production. Check me on that...

Some differences in Pre RR SR20's and Post RR SR20's

If you're not boosting it, a RR motor is a good choice because it's a newer motor. 2000+. Probably means low mileage.

1. Smaller ring lands. Keep the detonation away, you'll be fine, but they can't take huge amounts of ping like the older ones.
2. 4 counterweight crank vs 8 on the older ones. Probably won't be a problem unless you're revving really high or making mega power.
3. Weaker valve train. They went and put roller rockers in it, but then gave it weenie valve springs that prohibit much above 7500 rpm.

The weak point of the SR20DE RR is the higher land ring on the stock piston. Some say that 250 whp is the max power with out any problem....but i thinks that you can go higher on stock piston...but not much more (if conservative)

A VE water pump is the same as a roller rocker water pump. IE 00-01 SR20.

the roller rocker motor can be found from 2001 and up sr20 powered cars. there are also jdm versions of them available. the roller rocker valve tran can work in older heads but requires a little work to be done properly. everything pretty much fits but the valves and corresponding parts would have to be swapped from the rr head to older de head, becuase they are a couple mm shorter. yes the rr valve train is nice

http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread.php?t=28607&highlight=roller+rocker

...you have the regular P11 SR20DE. Nissan lowered the idle speed from 800rpm (AT/MT) to 700/680rpm (AT/MT) for P11 engine. One of the very first generation (oldest) SR20DE came with 850rpm idle speed. Biggest difference between P10 engine is you have the roller rocker arm engine. For North American market, they didn't use Roller-Rocker engine until the year 2000. Another difference is the red line. earlier SR20DE had redline at 7500rpm, but your P11 motor is redlined at 7000rpm. There are a few difference in electrical system and fuel system also.

There are contradictions (on the net) ^^^ here I believe... about the RPM limits. I believe for the JDM it was a little higher than USDM, and this can be solved by incorporating better valve train constituents like springs, cams, ect... Correct me if I'm wrong.

http://www.g20.net/forum/showthread.php?t=37653&highlight=primera+roller

No they are not, some non GT roller motors also rev up there (either 7200RPM or 7500RPM). They dont all come off the Primera, this motor can also be found in the Bluebird.

http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread.php?t=147144&page=4&highlight=soko

This has been done at G20.net. All you have to do is swap your existing intake manifold and valvecover and you are good to go. Look up a post by Mike.com he did it on his P10 and LOVES the roller motor in N/A form, a lot peppier and he does rev still to 7400RPM without a problem. That motor you have is the J-spec roller motor which revs to 7200RPM so you shouldnt have a problem.

Some differences in USDM RR SR20's and JDM RR SR20's
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread.php?t=46767

Well this is what I know about US and JDM roller rocker motors. I know the US motor uses top feed injs while the JDM motor uses sifr feed injs. I might be incorrect but the 3 JDM roller rocker motors I have got had side feed injs.

Great info! Your motor has side feed injectors, USDM roller motors have top feed.

The Determinent!!!! COMPRESSION! Testimony, Facts, FSM, 10:1 or 9.5:1??? - Uddated 03/13/06

There has been testing done on a stock RR engine from a P11 Primera by a member named "jp"... his testimony is on page 3 of this thread. There is also very useful dyno information as well

There has been a long dispute on the compression for the roller rocker engine...
hopefully and eventually this rounds it up... Here it goes

http://www.sr20forum.com/archive/index.php/t-88474.html

I haver personaly tested que gen 1 (hp) ,my motor is a jdm sr20 2j2 head and 53j short block (this motor came stock in owrs primeras) its 9.5 cr 143hp(factory specs)

There is a contradiction ^^^here about compression though...
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread.php?t=147144&page=5&highlight=soko

9.8:1 for sr20 in 2000 and 2001 b15 fsm manuals 9.5 for 1.8l...

BTW here is an image of the FSM... try seeing what it claims..

There is also another image on the FSM for the 2002 g20motor in that thread
It reads 9.5:1... It is shown below and has been resized

Keep in mind the compression & timing difference for the G20/B15Sentra in the FSM
The b15 reads 9.8:1, and the G20 reads 9.5:1

Interesting... but something isn't the same.

Check out the valve timing... also different.

Checked other year models... G20 and sentra are consistently different from each other in valve timing and compression. Very very weird.

Difference between 10:1 & 9.5:1 Pistons, its in this section...
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread.php?t=89154&highlight=identify+10:1

How to indentify a 10:1 or 9.5:1 SR20DE.
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread.php?t=32515&highlight=identify+10:1

simple way to check: carefully insert something narrow, long, and sensitive but rigid(lol) into the plug hole. (like a bent up coathanger) sweep it from wall to wall across the top of the piston carefully. if you feel it dip in and out it's a 9.5:1. str8 across is a 10:1. hope this helps-as thjerse a lot of haze on this topic and this way instead of taking soemones advice on your motor you can see for yourself.

Keep in mind the following:
1) That I don't think pistons really signify compression, I believe the size of the combustion chamber on the the RR engines are different from ordinary DE's. I may be wrong.
2) Even if... The difference b/n having 10:1 Compression, 9.8:1 Compression, and 9.5:1 compression for our RR motors REALLY doesn't make much of a difference. At the maxumum 5% difference in compression rate.
3) Some of the above identification schemes were done on JDM highports as well

All in all, the compression thing is only a minor thing... It can be found out if you really want to go through the trouble of doing it... i.e. taking it to a Nissan Proffesional, or Opening your motor and investigating, or Testing. I'm pretty sure that from most of the JDM motors bough from Soko, more of them were 9.5:1, but most of those were highport. That's all I know from searching though.

Highport to Lowport Information

The engine fits, but here is what i found. I got rid of all the smog system on the new motor and made a block off plate to cover where the EGR tube enters the intake manifold. I had to re-route the water lines that go into the egr valve when i removed it (yes water line on egr). the old power steering pump does not clear the oil filter so you have to grind off the little nipple that holds the line on the bottom of the pump, loosen the nut and rotate it a inch, A word to the wise dont try to put the oil filter assembly from your old motor on the new motor it doesnt fit because of the new intake manifold. This all leads to the fun part. It seems in 2000 when nissan revised the sr20de to a roller rocker motor they changed the head (of course) so your old intake manifold will not bolt up and the new intake manifold has high impedence injectors (17ohms). Guess what the old one used low impedence(11.5 ohms). The ecu wouldnt trigger the injectors so i had to figure out a way to make it work. Here where my options.

a) Jim wolf reprogram computer
b) Find top feed injectors low impedence
C) Figure out how to make the the ones i have work

I decided to go with option C. What i ended up doing is measuring both the high and low impedence injector and figuring out the voltage drop needed to get the ecu to think that it was firing a low impedence injector. To do this i wired a 39 ohm resitor in parallel with the two wires that fire each injector. the car fired the first time. Beside from a few vacuum leaks making the car idle kind of high everything works great. the new sr20de does rev alot quicker and seemd peppier than the old one but there are some downfalls. The rev limit is lower 6800rpm and the bottom end is not as strong as the older versions. the older version have this massive girdle that bolts onto the block via the main bearing caps the new one does not. In the future i will be taking the bottom end from a used sr20det rebuilding it and bolting the newer head to it. As soon as i get a chance i will set up a site for everyone to view pictures if wanted. oh and the old distributer bolts right up.

http://sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0311scc_roadracer/

But this new SR20 doesn't just drop in and replace an earlier one. Nissan saw fit to completely change the engine management, so making the new engine run with the old wiring harness and ECU requires a fair amount of rewiring, like the sensors and injector leads. This isn't a swap for the cautious or, frankly, the intelligent.

Lowport to JDM Lowport Swap Information:
[b]Why JDM engines have low milage ...b] [url]http://www.g20.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9697&highlight=primera+roller

In Japan, when a car reaches about 30,000 miles on the clock (maybe it's 50k Kilometers?), the vehicle has to go through a complete inspection to be re-licensed for use on public roads. During this inspection, every bearing, every bushing, every seal, and every weld is examined with an ultra-fine-toothed comb. By the time the inspection is done and all "insufficient" parts are noted on a list, it's just as economical for a Japanese car owner to buy a new car as it would be to "fix" their cars. The result is thousands upon thousands of perfectly good engines and transmissions (not to mention bodywork, bodyglass, signal lenses, and so on) that just sit in a junkyard, discarded.

A few years ago, somebody got the brilliant idea to start importing either powertrains or even whole front clips to the US, where cars aren't "old" until they've clocked 150-200k miles. This is how we can get complete 30,000-mile engines and transmissions for $600 to your doorstep. Even special engines like SR20VEs or SR20DETs can be had for a fraction of the cost of a normal engine from a US junkyard.

[/QUOTE]
Switching out the JDM Lowport Intake Manifold... and Why?
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread.php?t=147144&page=4&highlight=soko[/url]

XxToKeSxX said:
Since I live in SW Ohio, and we just got rid of E-Check <^><^> I am thinking of keeping the JDM intake manifold and also keeping my OEM one if I find a job out of state. I hope to swap it in maybe mid-late march (spring break or beginning of next school quarter)... (oooops... I let it slip!!!)

Answer Below VVVVV

Im glad you decided to go with that platform. The USDM roller rocker is 9:5:1, fu*k what everyone says that its 9:8:1, that was 1 person and that was not proven and Nissan always claimed 9:5:1 145hp. The only roller rocker that is 150hp is the P11 Primera GT motor which has the same USDM intake manifold but it has a different ECU for some reason and it is 10:1 compression and JWT can crack the code (1998-up). The 10:1 motors have a black valve cover.

The motor you have is clearly from Japan (intake manifold) and they are commonly found in the Primera and Bluebird. My first JDM motor that went into my first P11 after blowing it up with boost was from a Bluebird, the current one I have in my car is from a P11. Both have the same intake & exhaust manifold's but the throttle body is a lot smaller than the USDM one. I have talked to many overseas dudes and it seems these motors were rated at 140hp as well, im guessing the different intake manifold and bigger throttle body makes up for the 5hp extra in the US but it makes me wonder why they rev to 7200RPM and in the US they are only at 6750-6800RPM.

You will be amazed with what some S3R cams can do. I wouldnt even bother with that JDM Intake manifold. Make life easy for yourself, swap the valve cover and your existing intake manifold and keep your current computer and read up on the rest of the stuff from Mike.com.

The main troubles with the JDM mani is the WIRING, do you really want to try to figure out which wire is what and have to cut your stock harness and be throwing check engine lights left and right. You already know there is no EGR on the intake side or on the exhaust manifold, so that alone will trip a code as there is literally nothing to plug it too, also im sure the 02 sensors are different. Its just too much of a hassle, if you want a nice clean swap without the headaches, then just keep your USDM stuff, take all the JDM stuff off (make it a nice longblock) stick your stuff on it and you are good to go.

We followed Mikes instructions when a girlfriend of my friends who owns a shop blew her 95' G20t motor, he mistakenly bought a RR from a 2001 Sentra, and couldnt return it (thinking all SR20s are the same) so I gave him the instructions and 2 days later the car was running great. She was happy that it was peppier too.

good info on wiring a g20 ECU
http://www.g20style.com/how_to_wire_a_95.htm

Take it out the top or bottom???
There have been lots of opinions on this...

The new motor will be put in through the top... too much of a pain in the arse from the bottom... we had to lay it on the side to slide it out.

Here are pics of the process : http://sr20forum.com/showthread.php?...10#post1398810

The Actual Swap Process: Thank you for this...
http://www.roastedpavement.com/swap1.htm
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread.php?t=140688&highlight=swap

My Swap Process!!!!! Check it out!!!!
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread.php?t=149108

Exterior Pics of My New JDM RR Head/Block

Modding The JDM Roller Rocker!

Aftermarket Pulley Information

***ATTENTION***ATTENTION***ATTENTION***
Please, Do NOT Purchase aftermarket pulleys for your USDM RR engine.

http://www.g20.net/forum/showthread.php?t=46392

Andreas Miko said:
For all you SR20DE 2000-01, SR16VE and SR20VE owners, do not, I repeat, do not put any type of aftermarket pullies on your crank. These motors have a 4 counter weight crank shaft that is prone to vibrations in the higher RPMs. If you put a aftermarket pully that does not have a dampener in it like the UR pullies you will have premature bearing wear in your motors and also you can have problems with your clutch bolts or flywheel bolts coming loose.

There is an argument... but its not super valid... There have people that have installed them and had no problems. I do not think that its the actual pulley that is the problem, I think it's people incoherently revving "faster" and hitting higher revs then they would in the normal amount of time.

http://www.g20.net/forum/showthread.php?t=45589

USDM 91-99 SR20DE 8 counter weights - underdrive crank pulley seemingly ok
USDM 00-02 SR20DE 4 counter weights - underdrive crank pulley (maybe) not ok.

The roller rocker USDM SR20DE engines USDM 00-02 should have problems using an underdrive pulley, however, in the last 6 years I have not heard of one having problems. Experts say they should not be used but... Most of the VEs are 4 countet weight, except the 20v.

CAI's
Since I am using my USDM Manifold, my Injen Intake from my 98 will bolt right up.. I will need some information on what other people do... I imagine that there is an intake that you can purchase for the 01-02 b15 if you have the USDM Roller Rocker. I will have to check into that.

Headers
Headers that are incorporated for Lowports will bolt right up but you will have to check about the Bung for the EGR tube. Since I have my USDM 98 Intake manifold, I was able to use a Hotshot Gen 3 and it bolted right up...

Props/Bibliography...
Please let me know if you would like your name mentioned here if your words have been used in this above information. I would love to give you props/credit/thanks for helping me. Names weren't disclosed to cut down on argument over contradictions.

I would like to thank: (will increase)
-TUNED200, for doing me the favor of picking up a great engine for me, and actually going out of his way to grab it... and giving me some great insight on what I should do for a swap.
-Domiken, for taking the time to give me more insight and correcting me on this type of engine & swap.
-wnwright, for taking the time to look into compression differences for me.
-jer_760, for being patient and replying to a lot of my posts...
-jp, for giving us all the useful dyno information, and testing to determine correct compression ratios!

Some of the sites information was taken from:
sr20forum.com
roastedpavement.com
g20.net
b15sentra.net
dogpile/google/yahoo

and many more... to come?

Feel Free to add Good Relevant Information...
I Shared What was Found for a Reason!!!
(I also apologize... I know its a little overwhelming in size)

Peace, and remember... SEARCH!

Edits & Changes...
03/05/06 - Addition of JDM information
03/06/06 - Addition of Highport/Lowport Differences Thread
03/06/06 - Correction on Idle Speed Information
03/10/06 - Compression Information Update
03/13/06 - Addition of RR Roll Call Thread
03/13/06 - Addition to Compression Section
03/13/06 - Cleaning Up, Organization & General OCD Relief
03/25/06 - Addition of References to Dyno Info & Compression Testing/Testimony
03/29/06 - Addition of Mods Section, My Swap Link & Updating Information
04/02/06 - Added a couple of Pictures of Roller Rockers
04/28/06 - Addition of Table of Contents and Shortcuts

AlucardIdraculA · Mar 21, 2008

Does anyone have any info on using rollers on RWD highport engines? I hear arguments back and forth about cams. Some people say you dont have to run roller cams while others say you do...

XxToKeSxX · Mar 24, 2008

Clark Stepplar told me that you are supposed to run roller cams w/ the roller valve train because of the difference in valve heights and radius ratios when I asked him that question.

Octave236 · Apr 16, 2008

Hope reading doesn't own me. But I tried to find an answer to my question and didn't see any solid statements that it WILL work. I'm wanting to keep my DET intake manifold and head. Can I swap over Cams and roller rockers over to my Highport head or do i need to swap everything like springs and valves. I'd like to keep the springs and valves cause there stiffer and it's less work. But I'll do what I have to in the end just don't want to redo my intake pipe and rewire my harness in my NX. Anybody got dyno numbers on RR valvetrain and bottom end with DET pistons. Looking to see the power curve.

XxToKeSxX · Apr 16, 2008

It should fit, because the heads are essentially the same, but the valve lengths are different by 3mm from what I remember. I think the RR valves are shorter so the entire (valve train) swap will be needed. The conventional has a 40 mm install height and the RR has a 37mm.

What I'm wondering is... if the springs have the same diameter profile. If that were the case, even if they had the same spring force - your highport springs may have some preload if you use them instead of the RR springs. That would be sweet if that were a hidden upgrade. There are more harmonics in it than I understand. In other words, safe bet replace everything including the adjusters... or pioneer and rock the conventional springs.

But for the record... I think that the majority of the difference in power probably lies more from the bump in compression from the combustion chamber difference rather than the efficient valve train... That's an assumption though... it would be interesting to see what the actual difference is.

You'll never know until you try though.

So if you do post up.

eric96ser · Apr 16, 2008

Roller Rocker DEs are low port.

Octave236 · Apr 16, 2008

I know

can the lowport RR cams and rockers be put into a highport head. This will be way outta of your likening eric. I'm thinking super frankenstien motor. RR block and crank+DET pistons+Highport head and Intake Manifold+RR cams and rockers.

EDIT: basically a low compression RR highport motor.

swiss · Apr 16, 2008

Please tell him whatever he needs to hear to get this thing out of my garage.

Octave236 · Apr 17, 2008

:laugh: It's leaving wether i hear the right words or not. Im gonna take it to school and check spring pressures at different hiegths and what not.

Maybe I'll be a pioneer and not a follower. The DE-t didn't feel much peppier than the DET did to me, but we'll see if compression plays a huge roll. I just like boost

XxToKeSxX · Apr 17, 2008

Being a pioneer is where its at

dbesson · Jun 27, 2008

WTK: how many ppl here running the roller rocker sr20 are using the 2 pcs UR pulleys, I have researched the topic, found lots of info both good and bad. My real question is for those who have been using these on their motors... Have you encounter any problems, how long have you been using them and have any of these issues such premature bearing failure, happened to anyone?

XxToKeSxX · Jun 27, 2008

The info on that topic is very blurry.

some people say you can run it no problems,
some people say you can but only to certain rpms,
some people say you shouldn't run the crank pulley because of the harmonic balance issues with the 4cw
some people say you will run into problems.

The only real fact that I have come across is the RR DE pulley (at least mine anyway) is already lighter than the conventional DE's... The thing that sucks is a lot of the hoopla is based on misconstrued fact, opinions, and he said she said, it gets reiterated - and is part of the reason the roller variant gets its bad wrap. The sad part is half the comments come from people that don't own the motors! As a result of not being able to sort through the bull **** I didn't know the answer and I chose to stick with the stock lighter pulley instead of learning the hard way since this is my daily.

rooster · Jun 27, 2008

i have yet to meet one rr sr20 that had a problem i had the pullye for 60k and 20k was turbo and in my backyard is a b15se with a ur pulley and he's had it for almost 100. Find me one person and i'll admit i'm wrong.....

dbesson · Jun 27, 2008

XxToKeSxX... this is the only way to settle the argument once and for all, getting the opinions of the people who have been using them... no more he said she said, lets get some facts. these motors have been out for quiet sometime, and just like rooster said "i have yet to meet one rr sr20 that had a problem"... thats the info i'm looking for, if more than 10 people have used the pulleys successfully on the daily drivers and race motors with out any issues then i'd safely say that i'd use them... the only real issues was the post from the g20.net forum, when the guy had issues installing his, but everyone else on that thread said they were using the pulleys without any problem... so come on guys i want your opinions.

JDMsr20DE · Jul 27, 2008

head work

can i swap my s13 cams and rockers with the roller cams and roller rockers
can some of you guys help me i want a good naturally asperated setup but need good advice for parts installs and and simple tricks

swiss · Jul 27, 2008

Well, add PSC Metals to the Roller Rocker registry. I scrapped my motor on Friday. Metal prices are great right now. I got $67 for the aluminum and $14 for the mixed metals. It's a lot of work separating the aluminum, though.

Octave236 · Jul 28, 2008

did you keep a valve cover

It's my fault

swiss · Jul 29, 2008

Yeah, the VC was from a "spraybar" motor anyhow. It even made a brief cameo on the new setup while I got my new VC re-re-coated:

Scca_Ev · Jul 30, 2008

Just do I am clear, to swap a RR motor for a USDM DE I need to make the following adjustments

B15 oil filter
Swap over the intake
Swap over some misc brackets
Mod the PCV hose to fit the RR valve cover.

I am not sure about the water pump. Will the USDM water pump fit?
What about the dist. Do I swap that over too?

Am I missing anything else?

swiss · Jul 31, 2008

Yeah, use your stock dizzy. I'm 99% sure the water pump is the same, but you might check with Greg V to be sure. As for the other stuff, you have some options. You can use your DE valve cover rather than reroute the PCV line. You can also use either oil filter housing. The RR would use the B15 filter on the bottom of the back of the engine, the B14 one would of course keep the current location and filter.

Scca_Ev · Jul 31, 2008

Thanks Swiss.. I guess that would mean I need an oil filter housing gasket..

If this new motor is just like the 2000+ 2.0, then the oil filter and water pump are the same according to the parts guides..

Scca_Ev · Aug 13, 2008

Thanks for the assist swiss..

I found the problem. It seems a Bosch ABS unit will not run the engine :eek2:

All I read in the forums said no two connectors are alike so I didn't pay close enough attention to the fact the ECU and ABS connectors are identical and right next to each other (duh)

The engine runs and all is well..

One last question. I installed a real coolent temp gauge. I have seen the adapter that goes between the upper coolant inlet and the hose which is the outlet from the radiator. Wouldn't it be better to measure the engine temp coming out of the engine, not going into the engine?

jp · Aug 16, 2008

Just to update some of the dynos... From a JDM p11 2j2 motor.

Dyno stock p11 timing at 13 (motor with more than 200.000-km)

Dyno-2 timing at 17

Dyno-3 timing at 19

Dyno-4 Timing at 20

Dyno-5 timing at 20 plus tuneup( bkr6e gaped at 1,1mm , tps at 0.45 volt ,new rotor , new air filter, MAF reground)

Dyno-6 timing at 20 Hotshot cai ,ground kit,3 inchs exhaust

Dyno-7 JWT ecu,cams s3r,ur pullies,Hotshot cai,hotshot header gen 3,apexi s-afc2 ,apexi itc(timing)2,25 inch crush bent exhaust wrx muffler.

Dyno-8 p11 stock vs p11 with cai,timing,exhaust

Turbo p11
t28 from gti-r
14lbs
3 exhaust
2,25 gtir. jpipe
evo 7 fmic
440 injectors
afc2
itc
avc-r

t28 vs 3071r .86 trim 90 same setup just turbo change... same boost 10lbs both turbos

12lbs 3071r
changes from above dyno
3 dp , 3.5 exhaust
big fmic
b13 ecu 7500 rpm stock everything else

This is another setup sc61 turbo plus many things .. still Stock RR motor

link
http://www.sr20forum.com/turbo/202456-gti-r-manifold-tial44mm-bigturbo.html

360 whp at 14,5lbs

After that I put a pt67 and boost to 29lbs... *** car puts down over 500whp on a STOCK RR motor...

Now Im under new development of a new setup wich will include... s3r cams.. springs and retainers.. custom made intake manifold .equal leg exhaust manifold.. etc..
I will dyno this setup at 14lbs ... then Im going to forge te RR motor
Hope this helps some.
Good luck people-

XxToKeSxX · Aug 16, 2008

I love you JP... :tongue: Way to represent strong... I had lost these pictures of your dyno's. They are very inspiring.

jp said:
Just to update some of the dynos... From a JDM p11 2j2 motor.

Dyno stok p11 timing at 13 (motor with more than 200.000-km)

Dyno-2 timing at 17

Dyno-3 timing at 19

Dyno-4 Timing at 20

Dyno-5 timing at 20 plus tuneup( bkr6e gaped at 1,1mm , tps at 0.45 volt ,new rotor , new air filter, MAF reground)

Dyno-6 timing a 20 Hotshot cai ,ground kit,3 inchs exhaust

Dyno-7 JWT ecu,lcams s3r,ur pullies,Hotshot cai,hotshot header gen 3,apexi s-afc2 ,apexi itc(timing)2,25 inch crush bent exhaust wrx muffler.

Dyno-8 p11 stock vs p11 with cai,timing,exhaust

Turbo p11
t28 from gti-r
14lbs
3 exhaust
2,25 gtir. jpipe
evo 7 fmic
440 injectors
afc2
itc
avc-r

t28 vs 3071r .86 trim 90 same setup just turbo change... same boost 10lbs both turbos

12lbs 3071r
changes from above dyno
3 dp , 3.5 exhaust
big fmic
b13 ecu 7500 rpm stock everything else

This is another setup sc61 turbo plus many things .. still Stock RR motor

link
http://www.sr20forum.com/turbo/202456-gti-r-manifold-tial44mm-bigturbo.html

360 whp at 14,5lbs

After that I put a pt67 and boost to 29lbs... *** car puts down over 500whp on a STOCK RR motor...

Now Im under development of a new setup wich will include... s3r cams.. springs and retainers.. custom made intake manifold .equal leg exhaust manifold.. etc..
I will dyno si setup at 14lbs ... than Im going to forge te RR motor
Hope this helps some.
Good luck people-

jp · Aug 16, 2008

naa man.. THANKS to you for this thread.. I just put my 2 cents...
cheers

BRE92SER · Aug 17, 2008

does anybody know the stock RR injector flow rating?

ya... i searched. and skimmed over this whole thread and the injector thread. couldnt find it.

XxToKeSxX · Aug 17, 2008

The JDM's use the same 259cc's as the regular DE's... nothing special. I believe the b15s use a little larger top feed if I'm not mistaken.

BRE92SER · Aug 18, 2008

yeah its the USDM ones im interested in. im working on trying a GTI-R manifold on my highport (already test fitted), but i need topfeed injectors that are somewhere close to the same flow rate as the stockers (259)

i read on the QR forums that the SPEC-V ones are in the low 300's, so i might try those.

sohcvtec06 · Aug 25, 2008

dudes....i have the new 00-01 JDM RR and my question is, on the outlaw engineering site for the thermoblock spacers, it says that the spacers are for the 00-01 sentra SE (which i know is a RR as well) but can i use the spacers for the usdm manifold on my JDM one?? someone please reply because i want to order asap.

Scca_Ev · Aug 25, 2008

I am not sure what these spacers are, but I do know that the JDM intake gasket is the same as the USDM gasket.

jp · Aug 30, 2008

Some more data from a stock p11....

stock p11 timing at 12.

TonyB15_SR20 · Dec 31, 2008

Can a jdm rr engine interchange pistons with a bluebird engine, need some 8.5 cr pistons for my turbo conversion. I've seen after market forged pistons around that will work but thought nissan pistons would be cheaper and suffice for a goal of 350ish whp. Been looking around but nothing solid on the information being directly related to a rr.

The JDM/USDM Roller Rocker SR20DE Info Thread

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