II. Conventional Struts and Springs
A quick refresher on how struts and springs interact, from this link:
http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/...ect_ser_turbo/
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Nissan Performance Magazine
In pursuit of a little suspension overview there are some simple concepts to grasp. The spring in your suspension is what absorbs the impacts taken by the vehicle; the shock (or dampener) dampens these motions controlling the oscillation of the spring. The load of the vehicle and amount the suspension will travel is determined by the spring. The shock controls the spring by converting the energy to heat. Heat is generated by the piston speed inside the shock by working the hydraulic oil (and in some cases nitrogen gas) inside the shock.(Author Aaron Labeau)
|
Onward.....
Nissan OEM Stock Spring Rates - G. Wellwood used to (still does?) write for Nissan Performance Magazine. I have quoted him before, expertise confirmed. This thread, courtesy of jrmnet, provides some kick-ass general information:
http://www.geocities.com/g_wellwood/...andstruts.html
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by G Wellwood
OEM-Style Spring Rates
Front Rate Rear Rate Front Drop Rear Drop
* Eibach Pro Kit 148.5 68.5-159.9 1.20 1.20"
* Eibach Sportline 148.5 90.5-142.8 1.60 1.50"
* Hyperco Gen1 110-180 75-174 1.40 1.25"
* Hyperco Gen2 110-290 75-200 1.00 1.00"
* Progress Group 165 140 1.70 1.70"
* Suspension Techniques 133-175 91-150 1.50 1.50"
* Tokico 156 152 1.25 1.25"
* GA16DE Sentra E 112 101
* GA16DE Sentra XE, GXE 112 90
* SR20DE Sentra SE-R 123 112
|
B14 - XXXXX (hmmmmm.....searching is in my future.)
B15 - This thread, from B15sentra.net is great information for the B15 chassis. It is a sticky, and from what I can tell, this guy knows his stuff.
http://www.b15sentra.net/forums/showthread.php?t=113874
Thank you RobSE for bringing this to my attention.
SR20Forum Exclusive Springs To include Hypercoil (Hyperco) and Road Magnet springs.
What is the difference between Hyperco and Road Magnet springs? Uh...I cannot believe I am quoting myself, thee first and only time so far, but I state the difference right here:
http://www.sr20forum.com/group-buys/...ml#post1956414
Now you know the difference, here is the rest of the particulars on the SR20Forum Exclusive springs.
Hyperco Springs (Hypercoil) -
http://www.hypercoils.com/ (Applications: B13 and B14 only)
Hypercoil is a manufacturer that specializes in racing springs and custom springs for high end tuners (Hennessy, etc.) Some of the brighter suspension minds on the forum, including Chriscar and Choaderboy2, were trying to get a spring manufactured specifically for our B13 platform. A spring that could be used with an OEM length or shortened strut. A versatile spring comfortable enough for a (firm) daily driver, stiff enough to stay off the bumpstops, affording a slight drop (1" both front and back), and good for fairly serious auto-cross or road racing (not street racing, duh.) After much trial and tribulation the Hyperco Gen II spring was born. It is a brilliant design and execution, and is the brain child of the Hyperco Engineers and our very own forum brainiacs.
You want Hyperco Gen II's. The Hyperco Gen I's were...too low and too soft. Long story, they got redesigned. The Hyperco Gen I' s (purchased pre-owned) would work well with CSK's for a nice daily driver.
Hyperco Gen I Spring rate: 110-180 front, 75-174 rear, progressive rate
Drop: 1.40 front, 1.25" rear
Struts to use: CSK's
only, no OEM length struts.
Price: Long discontinued.
Hyperco Gen II Spring rate: 110-290 front, 75-200 rear, progressive rate
Drop: 1" front and rear
Struts to use: AGX's or better yet CSK's.
Ballpark price per set: $330.00 new and they don't depreciate much. If you see them used and want a set, move damned quickly.
Hypercoil springs should be installed tight coils up.
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread....hlight=Hyperco
Why do they sometimes "clunk" with AGX's? How do I fix it?
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread.php?t=177133
Courtesy of Jerryeads, this picture shows the fix:
And don't worry about the black goo on the springs, that is truck bed liner. Don't ask. Jerry also requested that I stick this information in here:
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Jerryeads
btw, you might note (you may have and I missed it) that when they do the hose thing they REALLY ought to take a file and smooth off the bottom(open) end of the Hypercos to fit the recess on the spring seat of the strut. When they clip those things (must be one hell of a pair of tin snips) the tip is pretty sharp; it'll go right through the stock Nissan pad in a heartbeat and probably won't take it too long to wear through the heater hose.
|
Thanks Jer.
What do they look like on the car?
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread....hlight=Hyperco
How good are Hypercoils, who manufactures them, and why the hell should I pay more for Hypercoil springs on my vehicle? jp314 provides us with an old, but very informative, Hypercoil brochure:
http://www.sr20forum.com/off-topic/2...ml#post2004320
Nissan Performance Magazine installing Hyperco springs and KYB AGX's on a B14 with happy results. Thanks Sentrixx, much appreciated link.
http://www.nissanperformancemag.com/...ber04/b14susp/
(Closed) Group Buy thread.
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread.php?t=136627
CURRENT Group Buy thread, get them now:
http://www.sr20forum.com/group-buys/...lets-roll.html
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Chriscar from closed Group Buy Thread
I'd like to thank Mike Kojima for helping us with the initial design parameters of these great springs, and for his continued support. Mike was kind enough to get a set of B13 Hyperco’s into the hands of Dave Coleman of Sport Compact Car Magazine, which lead to an excellent write-up and review in their April Issue.
We've probably sold close to 200 sets of these springs by now, and they have gotten almost universal praise. There are many, many reviews of them throughout this forum, and a few minutes of searching will more than likely answer any questions you may have.
Here’s some info from the previous B13 Hyperco group deals that you may find interesting.......
************************************************** *********
They fit 91-94 SE-R and NX2000's, the spring rate is 300lb front / 200lb rear, with a 1" to 1 ½" drop and they work like a charm with KYB AGX's, or Koni’s. Don't be put off by the high spring rate, your car will ride and handle better than stock, and WAY better than ProKits! There were many people in the first and second round that happily tossed their ProKits in favor of these springs.
This is a special order, since Hyperco usually only makes springs for race cars (F1, NASCAR, CART/Indy, IMSA, SCCA Trans-Am, etc), and Hyperco makes them for us only in quantities of 50+, and by special order. Don't miss out!
If you're not familiar with these springs, please take a look at some of the excellent feedback we've gotten from happy forum members....
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by FastNX
You just turn and the car goes where you want it, no body lean, no questions asked. You have no idea how fast you’re cornering until you look at the speedometer, then you don’t believe you're eyes. Wild. I don't know how they managed to make a suspension setup that handles so well, yet is so comfortable to drive in. Great job!
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by BlowN_SpecV
Hyperco Gen 2's are on!! I must say I am VERY impressed. Outstanding product and I love the look!!
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by SERprise In WV
I finished the install of the new Hypercoil 300/200 springs, and can honestly, flat-out tell you that they are wonderful.
The ride is firm, but not harsh over bumps. Ride height is about 1 inch lower than stock, and one inch higher than ProKits. Just perfect, IMHO.
In my opinion, my SE-R feels like a totally different car than it was before. Even though the harshness is gone, the transitional abilities are a step above what ProKits had to offer. The car stays flat and goes where you point it.
Best *conventional* spring I've ever ridden/driven in any car. Just perfect.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Its311Pete
It's been a few days now and an auto-x since I installed my springs. I also built and installed a rear STB at the same time. My comments are pretty much like everyone else, cornering is much more flat, turn in is crisp, and looks are great also.
Ride comfort isn't compromised allot, it really isn't that bad, bumps are not harsh, just a little more disturbing than stock. On and off throttle the car moves very little.
Auto-Xing, With the springs, AGX's and Azenis it was a HUGE change for the better. I was doing things with my car I didn't think was possible. I truly believe with a little more fine tuning I will be as good as a Koni/GC setup on a Classic.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Narcotix
This set really does soak up the big bumps and dips way better than the stock setup. The progressive spring rates seem to really help keep the chassis off of the bumpstops. Braking and accelerating are very much different from the 100,000 mile stock setup. Dive and squat are markedly reduced, and turn in is much sharper than the previous wallowy stock suspension.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dreadsword
Excellent springs!! Smooth install, great fitment. No weird noises or anything. Nice blue colour too. Performance: Wow! Had my first auto-x on them last night, and understeer has been reduced hugely- I would say by about 70%. Car is now more prone to throttle oversteer - which is a good thing - much more neutral and predictable handling. The lack of understeer is just awesome. FYI - the springs are on over *stock* dampers... can't wait to fix that!
|
http://www.xecu.net/billc1/Hypercoil...mpressions.PDF |
Road Magnet Springs - (Applications: B13 and B14 only) Another SR20Forum exclusive initiated in this case by Robchaos19. This has quickly become a great value in spring choices, true performance at a very affordable price. The first set of springs has been delivered to happy customers, the second Group Buy is underway. Much, much closer in specification to the universally praised Hyperco springs than any other spring on the market.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Robchaos19
The president of the company himself told me that if anyone is not 100% satisfied with these springs, they can get their money back.This spring also comes with a 1 year manufacturers warranty against defects and failure, and they do not require it to be installed by a professional.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bennitto Mallitto, post #35 this thread
RM/AGX
 |
RM Group Buy #1 B13 Spring rate: 325 front, 250 rear, linear rate
RM Group Buy #1 B13 Drop: 1.5" front, 1" rear
Struts to use: AGX's or better yet CSK's.
Ballpark price per set: $225.00
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Robchaos19 via PM
Has it been mentioned in the suspension thread that on the classic the rear fender lip measures lower then the front and can give the impression that the drop in the rear is a little lower then it really is? That has caused some confusion among a couple people.
|
It has been mentioned now sir.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by BeastieBerge
It took me an hour and a half to do the entire install.
The Drop looks good and it rides nice. The springs are stiff. Stiff enough, but not too stiff. Car doesn't lean but my back doesn't hurt when I get out of it. I used to have an SER with an ES master kit, Suspension Techiques sway bars, front and rear strut bars, and a lower control arm brace. My NX's suspension is stock except for the springs. Both had 40 series tires. I'd say my NX handles slightly better than the SER did.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Benito Malito
These are plenty stiff. Exacty as advertised. They are nicer than GC because the noise is eliminated. They are a bit too low, but it looks so good. they are the proper stiffness and it is not at all harsh. They are way better than Eibach sportlines, H&R, and e-bay dogisht springs. This is no imposter spring.
Hyperco the only one comparable and sit a bit higher. Good luck getting a set for less than $330 shipped. Even used.
With AGX which is the most common choice they run just fine, even when they bottom out. Which they do when you really kill it. It may dog leg going into gas stations. I get a kick out of this.
My suspension has a Whiteline lower bar, Cusco upper, and ES on everything except the steering rack. I also has a Nutech rear sway bar, with Shigpseed brace, and the AT rstb. So its pretty stiff for a b13. I have 195/50/15 with 512 ziex falkens. The RM's hold their own with this set-up. I'd buy another set with my next SE-R.
I recommend grabbing up shortened Koni's for this spring. That would be the hot-shti set-up. Plus the blue will look cool on yellow. I'll know soon for sure.
|
Based on the specifications and forum member feedback, these springs are certainly a quality performance alternative and better value than
any mass manufactured, off the shelf spring (see "Other Springs" below, all of which are lame). Further, as stated by Benito, with CSK's these springs would undoubtedly be flat-out excellent.
Closed Group Buy #1 thread:
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread....ht=Road+Magnet
CURRENT Group Buy #2 thread:
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Robchaos19 via PM
I am slightly amending the drop height in the front for the B13 springs to 1.25" instead of 1.5" and I am also offering B14 springs, but specs have not quite been finalized yet. I will keep you updated on the B14 springs as we work things out. Thanks Rob
|
Here's the amendment. Specifications for both the B13 and B14 springs on Group Buy #2.
RM GBII B13 Spring rate: 325 front, 250 rear
RM GBII B13 Drop: 1.25" front, 1" rear
Struts to use: AGX's or better yet CSK's.
Ballpark price: $225'ish
RM GBII B14 Spring rate: 325 front, 290 rear
RM GBII B14 Drop: 1.25" front, 1" Rear
Struts to use: AGX's or better yet CSK's.
Ballpark price: $225'ish
This link takes you to the
first page of the CURRENT Group Buy:
http://sr20forum.com/showthread.php?t=189333
This link takes you further into the CURRENT Group Buy, to some feedback trickling in.
http://www.sr20forum.com/group-buys/...ml#post2051187
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by TeKKiE from link above
Loving these springs paired with the AGX's. That and the Koni bumpstops, and my ride is SO MUCH BETTER. I love how it's stiff, yet not jarring like the other springs were.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by maximumyin
Just got the chance to really test this setup on back roads near my house. They are everything and more than I expected them to be coming from stock springs. Huge jump in handling prowess AND comfort level. It feels like the springs were the missing link in making my other suspension bits work at their full potential. Can't wait to AutoX with the new setup. Highly recommended!
Setup used:
KYB AGX (Setting 2 in front, 5 in the rear), B13 SE-R front sway, Progress rear sway, eBay front strut brace, Octotat rear strut brace, B14 wheels with Falken Azenis 205/40-15. B14 btw.
|
Other Springs
(Applications: B13, B14, B15)
Including but not limited to Eibach (Prokit or Sportline), Dropzone, H&R, Intrax, Megan Racing, Progress, Sprint, Suspension Techniques, Tein H-Techs and S-Techs, Tokico, Vogtland....etc....etc.... Too low and too soft, the entire lot of them. They will not work with OEM length struts worth a damn. After discussions with Steve (98sr20ve) a few of them,
as indicated, will work well ("decent" is Steve's exact words) with CSK's (remember, Custom Shortened Koni's) for a daily driver. They may be OK if you have
glass smooth roads in your area. You are going against all conventional SR20Forum wisdom if you decide to buy any of these brands. They were not designed properly by the manufacturers.
Here's a thread that discusses this topic of "Other Springs." Pay attention to the smart folks, 98sr20ve, Chriscar, FastNX, Toolapcfan, and totally ignore me.
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread....highlight=damn
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Chriscar
The reason the Hyperco's are so good is that they spent a sh*tload of engineering time on them. The B13 chassis is a tough one to design for and they actually engineered a spring for it using suggestions from real people here on the forum. It wasn't easy getting the drop that we wanted, while staying with a high rate spring, AND keeping the spring long enough so it wouldn't unseat at full suspension droop. There was allot of back and forth discussions with Hyperco.... it would have been allot easier for them to either reduce the rate, or make more of a drop. But in the end they were able to come up with the right combination of wire diameter, tensile strength, number of turns etc.
I'd bet dollars to donuts that for the most part, the majority of aftermarket spring manufacturers just plug in the numbers for most cars and pop out a spring without going through any significant real world testing.
The other thing you need to realize is that Hyperco was basically given a mandate by us to make a 300/200 spring that would work with AGX's or better. What that means is that they didn't need to try and make something that would ride soft and more importantly, wouldn't need to work with stock struts.
Props to Hyperco for doing such a kickass job on the B13 spring.
|
For the SAME approximate amount of money you should go back up and look at the section on Road Magnet Springs, or spend a little more and get Hypercos. Support your Forum and get some damn good springs in the process. Used with stock OEM length stuts, and the spring choices below are, in the immortal words of Mike Kojima...."a rice drop."
B+G -
http://www.b-gsuspension.com/home.shtml
(Applications: B13, B14, B15)
All chassis: 1.5" drop front, 1.5" drop rear
Struts To Use: *CSK's
only for a daily driver, no OEM length struts.
Spring rate: Per B+G sales line: "20% stiffer than stock, progressive rate springs.....blah, blah, blah... Should be used with a shortened strut." No kidding. Bonus points for honesty.
MSRP: $269.00
Dropzone -
http://www.dropzonesuspension.com/index1.htm
(Applications: B13, B14, B15)
All chassis: 2" drop front, 2" drop rear.
Struts To Use: Will not work well with any struts.
Rate: Spoke to Bob Smith (alias supplied by me, the roving reporter) on the phone. Very nice, good sense of humor, very knowledgable. I pestered him about the drop and spring rate. He would not divulge the spring rates, other than "
about 35% stiffer than stock."
Eibach -
http://eibach.com/cgi-bin/htmlos.exe...89135400005520 (Applications: B13, B14, B15)
*B13 Sportline: 1.6" drop front, 1.5" drop rear.
Struts To Use: *CSK's
only for a daily driver, no OEM length struts.
Rate: Per Eibach technical support: No information on exact spring rate. However, the Sportline will be "30-35% firmer than stock."
*B13 Pro Kit: 1.2" drop front, 1.2" drop rear.
Struts To Use: *CSK's
only for a daily driver, no OEM length struts.
Rate: Per Eibach technical support: No information on exact spring rate. However, the Pro Kit will be "20% firmer than stock."
Friendly guy, reasonable information I suppose.
*Note: Both types of Eibach springs for the B13 have been discontinued, they are no longer in production.
Still available for the B14 and B15:
B14 Sportline: 1.9" front drop, 1.9" rear drop
Struts To Use: Will not work well with any struts.
B14 Pro-Kit: 1.4" front drop, 1.4" rear drop
Struts To Use: *CSK's
only for a daily driver, no OEM length struts.
B15 Sportline: 1.5" front drop, 1.4" rear drop
Struts To Use: *CSK's
only for a daily driver, no OEM length struts.
B15 Pro-Kit: 1.2" front drop, 1.0" rear drop
Struts To Use: *CSK's
only for a daily driver, no OEM length struts.
You guessed it, the spring rates are not available from Eibach. Then I found this:
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Sentra.Net
Eibach Pro-Kit spring rates: (Rates are lb/in. All rear springs are progressive)
Car Front Rear Source of Info
Sentra SE-R: 150 front, 80 - 180 rear Eibach*
NX2000: 160 front, 80 - 180 rear Eibach*
200SX SE-R: 160 front, 137 - 257 rear NISMO catalog
* Kit Wetzler asked an Eibach engineer directly
|
Which indicates that the Eibachs for all of our cars are both too low and too soft.
H&R -
http://www.hrsprings.com/site/index.html
(Applications: B13, B14, B15)
B13: 1.3" drop front, 1.3" drop rear.
Struts To Use: *CSK's
only for a daily driver, no OEM length struts.
B14: 1.5" drop front, 1.4" drop rear.
Struts To Use: *CSK's
only for a daily driver, no OEM length struts.
B15: 1.5" drop front, 1.4" drop rear
Struts To Use: *CSK's
only for a daily driver, no OEM length struts.
Rate: Per H&R's technical support line: "Unavailable to the public. Our Sport springs are designed to be used with the rest of the stock suspension including the struts." Bah, nice guy, lame answer, *CSK's
only for a daily driver.
MSRP all springs: $299.00
Ballpark price: $210.00 at Tire Rack.
Intrax -
http://www.intraxsuspension.com/ (Applications: B13, B14, B15)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Intrax
Make Model Year Part Number Type Chassis Front Rear List Price
Nissan Sentra 87-90 60.1.030 SLS B12 1.8" 1.6" $289
Nissan Sentra & SER 91-94 60.1.031 SLS B13 2.0" 1.8" $289
Struts To Use - Will not work well with any struts.
Nissan Sentra 95-99 60.1.032 SLS B14 2.0" 1.8" $289
Struts To Use - Will not work well with any struts.
Nissan Sentra 00- 60.1.034 SLS B15 1.7" 1.5" $289
Struts To Use - Will not work well with any struts.
Nissan Sentra Spec V 02- 60.1.038 SLS B15 1.6" 1.5" $309
|
Ballpark price: $220'ish
Megan Racing -
http://www.meganracing.com/products/...e.asp?catid=47 (Applications: B13, B14, B15)
B13 Drop: 2" Front, 1.75-2" Rear
Struts To Use: Will not work well with any struts.
B13 spring rate: 230 lbs F & 205 lbs R
MSRP: $119.95
B14 Drop: 1.9"-2" Front+Rear
Struts To Use: Will not work well with any struts.
B14 spring rate: 280F & 230R
MSRP: $119.95
B15 spring rate: 2" Front+Rear
Struts To Use: Will not work well with any struts.
B15 spring rate: 240F & 210R
MSRP: $169.95
Progress -
http://www.progressauto.com/ (Applications: B13, B15. No on B14.) Per their very knowledgable, friendly sales staff:
B13: 1.7" drop front, 1.7" drop rear.
Struts To Use: Will not work well with any struts.
Rate: 165 front, 140 rear.
MSRP: $209.00
B15: 1.7" drop front, 1.5" drop rear
Struts To Use: Will not work well with any struts.
Rate: 190 front, 260 rear
MSRP: $209.00
Sprint -
http://www.sprintspring.com/ (Applications: B13, B14, B15)
All of them: 2" drop front, 2" drop rear.
Struts To Use: Will not work well with any struts.
Rate - Per Sprint springs technical support line: "Our spring rates are confidential. Competitors have been blatently copying us. All manufacturers would not test them the same anyways (we discussed Dynojet Dynos vs. Mustang Dynos as an analogy). I asked him about the 2" drop, OEM being 3", you now have one inch of suspension travel. He dodged, said all their springs ride great, I will love the way the car drives, etc...." Bah, nice guy, lame answers.
Suspension Techniques -
B13: 1.5" drop front, 1.5" drop rear
Struts To Use: *CSK's
only for a daily driver, no OEM length struts.
Rate: 133-175 front, 91-150 rear
Ballpark price: $220'ish
Tein S-Tech and H-Tech - (Applications: B14 and B15 only)
http://www.tein.com/stech.html
B14 S-Tech: 2.4 inch drop front, 1.1 inch drop rear.
Struts To Use: Will not work well with any struts.
Front spring rate: Kilograms force/mm 3. Pounds/inch 168.
Rear spring rate: Kilograms force/mm 5. Pounds/inch 280.
Retail: $240.00
B14 H-Tech: 2 inch drop front, 0.6 inch drop rear.
Struts To Use: Will not work well with any struts.
Front spring rate: Kilograms force/mm 3.4. Pounds/inch 190.
Rear spring rate: Kilograms force/mm 4.4. Pounds/inch 246.
Retail: $240.00
Why Tein makes the worst springs for the B14 chassis. Thank you Sentrixx, good discussion:
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread.php?t=184553
B15 S-Tech: 1.3 inch drop front, 1.1 inch drop rear.
Struts To Use: *CSK's
only for a daily driver, no OEM length struts.
Front spring rate: Kilograms force/mm 2.7. Pounds/inch 151.
Rear spring rate: Kilograms force/mm 3.5. Pounds/inch 196.
Retail: $220.00
B15 H-Tech: 0.9 inch drop front, 0.6 inch drop rear.
Struts To Use: *CSK's
only for a daily driver, no OEM length struts.
Front spring rate: Kilograms force/mm 2.75. Pounds/inch 154.
Rear spring rate: Kilograms force/mm 4.4. Pounds/inch 246.
Retail: $220.00
Tokico -
http://www.tokicogasshocks.com/
Cheap, old-school springs and struts. I have
never read a single good review on these springs or struts on the SR20Forum.
Pictured is their entire "performance" package.
B13: 1.25" drop front, 1.25" drop rear
Struts To Use: *CSK's
only for a daily driver, no OEM length struts.
Rate: 156 front, 152 rear.
Ballpark price: Less than $500.00 for the entire "performance" package including the (lame) struts as pictured.
This thread, courtesy of jrmnet, provides insight to the Tokico suspenion:
http://www.geocities.com/g_wellwood/...andstruts.html
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by G Wellwood from the link provided
8 months after I installed these springs and struts, I had become disappointed with the kit...... In competition however....
Tokico Handing Kit Assessment
* The car had considerable oversteer on corner entry
* The reduced front suspension travel bottomed frequently when traversing bumps during turns - even on the street.
* The front struts were insufficient in dampening the spring motion
* The car felt "floaty" over bumps - very unsettling
|
Those suspension characteristics are unacceptable compromises in a daily driver or track terror. Most of these handling "ills" could be cured with CSK's.
Vogtland -
http://www.vogtlandsuspension.com/?g...FQt0YAoduXQ-Mg
(Applications: B13, B14, B15)
B13: 1.6" drop front, 1.6" drop rear.
Struts To Use: Will not work well with any struts.
B14: 1.6" drop front, 1.6" drop rear.
Struts To Use: Will not work well with any struts.
B15: 1.6" drop front, 1.6" drop rear
Struts To Use: Will not work well with any struts.
Rate: Unknown,
probably too damn soft.
Ballpark price: $190'ish
"*CSK's only for a daily driver, no OEM length struts." Means what it says, if you use CSK's with these springs, it will work fine as a daily-driver. The reasoning is that the
actual tiny loss of travel with the springs as indicated, (>/=) 0.50" when utilized with CSK's, combined with the slightly stiffer spring rate than OEM springs works fine.
Pretty White tried out CSK's combined with the Eibach Pro-Kits, to graciously test that "paper" theory (to be specific, 98sr20ve - Steve's theory). Pretty White is very happy with the combination on wash-board rough, pot-holed, NY City streets:
http://www.sr20forum.com/chassis-sus...ack-later.html
Struts
KYB AGX struts - (Application: B13, B14, B15) These are a stock OEM length strut that is a popular purchase on the forum. They are inexpensive, much better than stock, and work well in certain applications. They are a direct bolt-on fitment.
Mated up with the Hyperco springs, some Koni bumpstops, and you have a very good and inexpensive DD, auto-cross suspension.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Sport Compact Car April 2005
Match....Hyperco....springs with some off-the-shelf adjustable KYB AGX struts, and you almost have a great track-worthy street suspension. Almost. Stiff springs and minimal lowering help keep you off your bumpstops, but they're still not enough. Midcorner bumps will still have you crashing the bumpstops.
Bump stops are not the end of the suspension's travel, though, nor are they something to be avoided at all costs. A properly designed bump stop will gently increase the overall spring rate in the last inch or so of travel and evan act as its own damper, gently rebounding more like a Nerf ball than a Super Ball.
Most modern cars use relatively soft microcellular polyurethane foam bump stops that are essentially the hard-core automotive equivalent of Nerf. You can try your luck pilfering these modern stoppers from the junkyard, or you can try the proven solution of Koni Sport bump stops.
With this simple spring/strut/bump stop combination - the front struts set on three (of four) and the rears on three or four (of eight) - the suspension rides well, is remarkably well controlled and handles bumpy roads with aplomb. (Author Dave Coleman)
|
AGX's may work well with the Road Magnets. Further information on pairing them with the RM's will be posted as it becomes available.
As AGX's are OEM length, they will NOT work well with any of the "other" commercially available springs (H&R, Eibach, etc....). You
will be riding on your bumpstops. You will probably damage the AGX's. From this thread:
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread....hlight=Hyperco
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by 98sr20ve
The reason every lowering spring but the Hyperco is bad with the AGX's is because only the Hyperco has the needed spring rate combined with a small drop that will work with OEM length struts. Any other lowering spring is too soft and has too much drop for the OEM length AGX's.
|
AGX's will work with your stock OEM springs just fine. Mated with some Progress sway bars, and you would have a much improved daily driver over the stock suspension.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Same thread as above
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Farmboss
I just want the AGX's i dont care about lowering.... for now I just want to get rid of my current setup.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by 98sr20ve
Stock springs, Progress front and rear sway bars would be a nice setup
|
|
How they work:
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by KYB Website
The compression and rebound rates on the AGX can be adjusted with an external knob on the shock body or a screwdriver slot at the top of the piston rod, depending on model. The knob adjusts both compression and rebound at the same time, with 1 being the softest setting, and 8 being the hardest setting. You select damping rate.
|
Ballpark price: $425'ish a set
(Closed) Group Buy thread:
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread.php?t=118134
KYB website opened to SE-R page:
http://www.kybshocksonline.com/Searc...x?AAIA=1212905
Custom Shortened Koni struts (CSK's forthwith) - (Applications: B13, B14, B15). Just what the name implies, you use a stock OEM strut body, cut down it's length and insert a (Red? Yellow? Oh, my.....
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread....t=Koni+damping) Koni insert into the shortened housing. This provides you with an extra inch of travel in your suspension. Remember, OEM travel is only 3", an extra inch of suspension travel when using lowering springs of any sort helps maintain suspension travel.
Koni website:
http://www.koni.com/_cars/frame.html
Hypothetically:
OEM length strut:
(3" OEM) minus the "drop" on the springs (1.5") = 1.5" of suspension travel left. Not good at all.
CSK's
(3" OEM) minus the "drop" on the springs (1.5") = 1.5" of suspension travel. Now
add back in the inch that you cut out of the Koni strut length (+ 1") and you have 2.5" of suspension travel. Much closer to orginal OEM of 3".
* 01/2007 * CURRENT discussion/clarification.
"Custom Shortened Koni INFO Discussion" thread:
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread.php?t=185484
Ballpark price DIY: XXX
Ballpark price having them built for you:
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by 98sr20ve
I can make them a variety of different ways. The breakdown is as follows. Remember this is custom work so I can do it a variety of ways. This also assumes you send me your usable stock housings.
Koni's (adjustable, but you need to take them off to do it) = $535
Install them shorter in the front= $75 (this is it for the b14)
Install all 4 into housing for the b13 housings = $125
Shorter all the way around = 150 (not needed on the b13, not possible on the b14)
Add, externally adjustable Fronts on either car = $85 extra for the pair. This allows the use of strong front springs as well. 350lb to 375lb should be ok.
Custom Mounts for GC perch (allow the use of a 10 inch front spring) = $75 per axle. Only needed up front.
So if you have a b13 and you want shorter fronts and standard rears (535+125) and you also want the externally adjustable fronts ($85) plus the custom mounts for the longer spring up front only ($75). This puts you at $820 for my work (plus shipping) and then you provide the GC setup (400 at the most). This setup is far nicer then the TEIN in ride. Plus, you can add the GC camber caster plates which give you another 3/4 inch of travel up front. A lot of people already own this GC stuff so it saves them money. Hope that helps.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by 98sr20ve
(I recommend....) Koni as your first choice in struts becasue in the end they are the most versitile strut you can buy. You can run the oem length and learn how to install them like that. If you ever decide you want to lower the car you can shorten them up and still have a great setup. OEM install on a B13 is not that hard and the benifit is great.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by 98sr20ve from later in this thread
CSK info:
CSK need to be choosen based on the type of spring you want to use. If you are using oem style spring (any spring that does not use a coilover sleeve) then you have to use the Off The Shelf (OTS) B13 Koni unit for the rear of the B13. With drop springs or coilovers you can use the OTS B13 or B15 unit up front. B13 front unit is a touch shorter then the B15 front but does not have external adjustment while on the car. B15 front unit has external adjustment and those can be adjusted with out removing the strut. If you want to use the OTS Koni Maxima front unit you need to use it with coilovers. To use that you need to use any number of oem nissan housings. Maxima, Altima all have some housings that will work. They need to be a 2 inch O.D. to work.
Spring Rates
B13 Fronts =350
B14 Fronts = 400+ (not as short as the B13, I use it as a rear with the Maxima insert on the B13 with coilovers only).
B15 Fronts 400-450 (450 is the limit, 400 is better).
Maxima Fronts= 450+
Dampening is very personal. Some people may like the B13 fronts with higher then 350 some people would not.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by 98sr20ve from later in this thread
Adjustability
Only the B15 front is externally adjustable. All Konis commonly used wtih the B cars are adjustable, you just must remove the spring to do it.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by 98sr20ve later in this thread
"B14-15 (chassis) have to use OTS (off the shelf) non-shortened units in the rear of the car. They are shocks not struts and are sold complete. They are not inserts that can be relativly easily shortened. Koni can shorten them for you."
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by 98sr20ve later in this thread
Back in the day, the B13 front was the only option commonly tired. Now we have Spec V and Maxima inserts....
But, knowing what I know now, I recommend the SpecV insert. The cost is less then $10 more.
BTW, the Maxima insert ($135 from tirerack) as tested by Koni has nearly the same starting rebound dampening as the 8611 but with out the overly stiff compression portion. It's my favorite setup for the front. The B14 Koni front has about 10% less starting dampening as the 8611 and makes a great rear unit for a B13 GC car. In the end my criteria for a shock are:
1 Shorter then stock
2 Adjustable
3 Easily Revalvable
4 Of a know high Quality
5 Adaptable to a variety of setups
6 Race Proven
7 Will survive a daily driver
Very few shocks make that list. VERY, VERY few.
.....There is a heck of a lot more in picking a damper then just looking at a dyno curve. I will take "1 inch plus shorter then stock Koni" over the AGX setup any day of the week on a lowered car. If I was to build up any B13/14/15 my first and only choice would be either a set of Spec V or Maxima/B14 setup depending on the springs I was using..... Just to be clear, it's not "my Maxima" setup in the sense that you have to pay me to get it done. I have posted how to do all this stuff on your own. It's off the shelf simple
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Koni website
The red KONI Special is designed for drivers who want to improve their car’s handling. Improved comfort and road holding combined with a higher level of safety, available for almost every car. Each shock absorber is customised for the car model. Hence, a KONI Special is always the best choice for replacement as well as improvement.
|
Quote:
|
(Yellow Sport) KONI serves sporting drivers with a carefully designed range of sport shock absorbers. This line focuses on exceptional road holding combined with an acceptable level of comfort. Its characteristics include responsive steering, reduced body-roll and limited body movements. Externally adjustable shock absorbers make fine tuning even more easy.
|
* 01/2007 * CURRENT discussion/clarification.
"Custom Shortened Koni INFO Discussion" thread:
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread.php?t=185484
Will my "Brand X" strut body work? Yes, if it is OEM replacement it will work as a donor strut.
Can I use the Koni's unshortened? Yes. Here's a thread:
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread....highlight=koni
Why go with the Koni's? See thread above. Also, check out this one:
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread....highlight=koni
Where can I get these Koni inserts?
Tire Rack carrries a full line of Koni products:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/indexA.jsp
Who can make me a set of these already shortened that I can just bolt-on and go?
1) You can contact forum member 98sr20ve, Steve. However, PLEASE do NOT contact Steve unless you are
damned serious and have money in your hand. He is a very busy man, so please do not bug him for no reason. He will determine if/when he can help you out based on his schedule not yours. There is no "haggling" on his prices, pay what he charges and smile, it is a veritable bargain. He is a very nice guy doing you a great favor, he does not need your "business." Please treat him and his very valuable and limited time with a great amount of respect. Comprende?
2) You can contact TheKid29. It is readily apparent that he does terrific work and offers his services here:
http://www.sr20forum.com/suspension-...10-8611-a.html
From our Tech Library, how to make them:
http://www.sr20forum.com/showthread.php?t=26211
Isfahan provided excellent photos of his Koni build-up:
Koni pile of parts:
Assembled Koni red:
Assembled Koni yellow:
Koni Red with bumpstop and dust boot:
Koni's web-site:
http://www.koni.com/_cars/frame.html
Other Struts
Replacement struts for your OEM struts. (Application: B13, B14, B15)
Tokico HP Series (commonly Tokico Blues) -
http://www.tokicogasshocks.com/products/hp/
Work fine as a replacement strut for your OEM strut. They are not an upgrade of any sort. The quality is fine, Tokico builds struts for many Japanese car manufacturers.
Ballpark price - $90'ish or so per strut.
KYB GR2's -
http://www.kybshocksonline.com/Searc...x?AAIA=1212905 Another replacement strut for your OEM strut. Nothing fancy, does the job, not an upgrade.
Ballpark price - $85'ish rear, $70'ish front
Bump Stops
(Application: B13, B14, B15)
These handy little items should not be overlooked as unimportant when you are modifying your suspension. As your suspension hits full compression, these little "cushions" can help absorb the shock and avoid damaging your struts.
Koni - Absolutely excellent choice. Recommended by Sport Compact Car, see article posted above. Ballpark price: $80.00.
Available at forum vendor The Go Fast Depot:
http://www.sr20forum.com/gofastdepot...ump-stops.html
Isfahan providing another excellent picture of an OEM vs. Koni bumpstop:
Koni on the right.
Why are the Koni's the best bumpstops you can buy? This thread, courtesy of bobbyisking, has Steve (98sr20ve) and Mike Kojima (Choaderboy2) discussing the issue:
http://www.sr20forum.com/chassis-sus...ump-stops.html
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by 98sr20ve
|
